I feel that the unseen has this small annoying promblem. Every time you get converted to the unseen, you seem to turn into the assassin because the assassin is either dead or about to die because there easy to catch. I feel that when you become apart of the unseen then you should stay as the converted class of your previous class(Ex. Sheriff converted becomes Marshal, no matter if assessin is dead or not). The MM should have the day Ability that allows him to choose who becomes the assasssin. His current ability allows him to become assassin if no other members,but I think you should pick a member of the unseen that will become an assassin that night. All of the unseen converted classes are really fun but you never get to play as them or play as them for at least a night or two. What do you guys think of this?
I don’t see a way choosing will work with the unseen… unseen is capped to 3 people, The MM, 1 assassin and 1 converted. If you are converted and the assasain is dead/about to die. the only choices are you and the MM to replace him. Losing the MM is the absolute last resort for unseen as he’s the only one that can replenish the numbers, so there’s kind of only one option.
There is no converted class that’s abilities are more crucial than killing or converting, so it’s a no brainer for the unseen to always flip the converted. Automatic or MM’s choice, the result would as far as I can imagine always be the same.
I’m not saying that the MM should make himself the unseen in say that they should let the converted class stay the converted class for a day or two longer. 1) because the converted classes are really fun and unique classes that we never get to really get the chance to play. 2) If you’re converted in a unseen game you’re mostly gonna be a assassin because of my reasons listed above. 3) it could help converted classes not get outed the next day for not finding anymore information. I’m saying let the converted classes stay their converted classes a bit longer then instantly turning into an assassin
Also you’re comment about how killing and converting are most beneficial to the unseen is technically true but my counter-argument is that if you can throw attention of the unseen or use your abilitys say as a converted observer(nightwatch) to find the NK then I would much rather do that then kill a random BD that might fail because immune and so on. Plus you have to think about what’s more enjoyable for the players. If you play as an assassin every game then it gets repetitive and loses its touch, but when you have a class that can deceive people and do many more to benefit the unseen the. It becomes more enjoyable to play. This is my personally thinking
assasan is just about as capable of finding the NK as the night-watch. MM also has an investigative ability etc… while I agree it would be more fun like that, it doesn’t change that 9/10 times it will lead to more unseen losses. If the choice lies with the MM, he will use it 10/10 times so it doesn’t matter. If the choice lies with the converted etc… he may very well chose to raise the odds of the unseen losing for a chance to use fun abilities… but that is kind of what gamethrowing is defined as.
and of course if the system just automatically forces a day or 2 wait before the assasain appears… well that’s just going to be a huge hit to unseens winrate and a lot of people really ticked off when the assasain dies but a single kill would bring majority… and the unseen has to wait a day to do anything about it.
Honestly I get your issue with it. but I don’t really see a solution, it is kind of the nature of the beast with unseen, they have 2 critical classes, and a cap of 3. Solving the problem basically involves either being able to raise the amount of unseen members (that probably would require increasing the whole table size… say 24ish person games with 4 unseen 5 cult limits).
Other direction to go might be to reduce the odds of the assasain going down so quickly. Allies removal anyone?
As far as your counter arguement… lets face it 95/100 cases, stabbing someone is much more likely to lower the amount of opponents you have, versus an investigation. Odds are random BD guys are the majority of things you will hit, which almost all are not immune, and almost all are completely useless for calling out as a nightwatch etc… I’d also have to point out a pretty high majority of converteds abilities, pretty much have the primary function to help the unseen kill and convert the best targets. and thus are only shells of themselves if they aren’t the 3rd member.
I enjoy the current system. It makes it so obtaining something like duchess is rare and it’s interesting. Either the unseen variant is a carbon copy, so it isn’t actually that interesting and it’s good that it’s over soon (aristocrat/alcoholic for example). Or it tends to have limited use abilities that comply with the length of being able to hold the claim and the change to assassin. An example is herbalist or illusionist. The former can defile twice usually before being found out with no heals. The latter can frame someone with day messages and people start to question no links after a while. I think the system is fine as it is.
I understand what you mean about how the converted classes help with killing like the enforcer but like the poacher can help occupy a proven investigator class for two days while there’s a healer on him, making it so that the unseen’s assassin can’t kill him or even the night watch can see who is healing them first of all then the MM can convert the nightwatch into the assassin the next night and then he can kill the healer. Another class in the psychic who turns into the illusionist. If MM wants to convert and the origanl assassin died then he converts the psychic into an illusionist. He will stay as an illusionist until the MM decides to turn him into an assassin. He will be able to use his Illusionist abilities to talk to the Kingdom in the morning and then be an assassin at night allowing him to fool the Kingdom.
I know this isn’t 100% perfect. It’s just another simple layer of strategy deciding wether to convert your say enforcer into an assassin or wait until you get a different class like the alcoholic. Another way is have unseen convert up to four unseen members but I don’t think people want that.
Well yeah I can agree on them keeping their ability for the day phase before converting. I still hold to the point though that for every one case in which an unseen might have been able to make use of it’s night ability over having an assasain flip and use it in a way that helps unseen more than a kill, there are 10 or more cases in which the kill would have been so much more helpful that it would be effectively gamethrowing if he (or the MM) did not chose to flip him.
Then the converted class would become MM if both the MM and assassin died before night 4 and if they both died after gen the converted class becomes assassin
But under the system you suggested the MM would need to manually choose to promote them to assassin. No MM would therefore mean no promotion.
I would think of both are dead then the game altomatiocly does that based on what night it is to turn him into assassin or MM. Kinda like it already does now