[VFM] A Hat in Time Cop13er - Town Wins!

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

Extreme level 0 analysis and also your choice of wording is really fucking scummy

If you really cared about maintaining cop cover you wouldn’t “n0 Vulgard” and then immediately go “Vulgard is PROBABLY just town.” You don’t care about how you look because you’re both not the cop and also not even town

All your posting to cream feels like theater to me as well

I thought the most suspicious post from Alice was actually townreading me so easily when she didn’t townread Cream nearly as easily. It felt like a combination of following consensus and pocketing. I also think her push on pigeon could come from either alignment; the “lurkers have to be resolved” sentiment is the type of justification wolves use to push on LHF. Wolves have to be yeeted, not “lurkers resolved.” It’s still possible to read lurkers.

That said, pigeon’s vote on Alice and later comment elaborating on his vote were quite bad because they didn’t look like something he genuinely believed. Maybe she’s right on this.

Backreading rn.

[Marluxion]

rand is the chance of randing a villager in the game
roughly 75% chance for any individual player to be a villager
greater than rand w (>rand w) is a greater than 25% chance to be a wolf from their behavior

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

I thought the most suspicious post from Alice was actually townreading me so easily when she didn’t townread Cream nearly as easily. It felt like a combination of following consensus and pocketing.

But then I realized it made sense for n0 treatment.

[Vulgard]

I’m not going to talk about Alice anymore.

Still reading.

[Marluxion]

similarly when someone says >rand v it means the play they are talking about has a greater than 75% chance to come from a villager

it’s just basically saying they think the post is indicative of the player being more likely to be town

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

@Cream

Chloe, Alice, Vulgard, Centuries

My instincts tell me at least one of these has to be a wolf, currently leaning Alice but not 100%

Same.

@Cream

Argh. Part of me worries that pigeon is some sort of LHF mislynch situation.

Same! But the way he’s been playing up to this point in the thread doesn’t look villagery to me. The biggest point in his favor is his vote and reasoning on Alice, actually; it’s overtly bad. Perhaps too overtly.

@Marluxion

You can be a better wolf than Vulgard, final offer

This read might be really dumb, but I don’t see Marl talking about our entire group like this if he’s wolves with any of us. Since I think it’s somewhat likely (even by pure math) that one of us is a wolf (also because games don’t tend to be easy) then uh… Marl V? To be fair, he did say himself that he didn’t think we were all town, so at the very least, I think we actually may be all town if Marl is W.

[Psyx]

@Alice

Point is, stop pushing me because I’m pushing a weak player unless you have strong reasons to believe that the aforementioned player is a villager.

This shit frankly happens every damn game here and without pushing null LHF-y slots we’d be effectively allowing them to coast to endgame.

I mean…there’s nothing wrong in keeping LHF alive if them being LHF is the only reason why they’re being scumread? (From meta-reader to another meta-reader, I have no comment on your meta-read on him, btw. I just have a problem with the mindset/the last paragraph)

In our last game (in NUF) there was this lost super newbie townie who kept replying in one-liners (ie “Oky~” or “Hmmmmmmm”) and said “I don’t know” when straight-up asked if they were town or mafia. They were widely scumread for that, but in the spec chat we talked about it and Cream (or was it someone else) said that as long as their slot can be read, it’s okay if they survive to endgame (altho them being the deciding vote in LYLO would be dangerous).

I understand the frustration of seeing players who are barely trying and “coasting” while one is spending much effort and time reading, but yeah, I’d prefer to see more posts from pigeon before immediately yeeting him. Unless he’s going to stay this way until EOD, in which case I’m okay with it.

[Marluxion]

Good Job Alberto Einstein what was your first clue

the fact that i’ve been here talking to myself for quite a bit or the fact that i’m the top poster

[Vulgard]

@Chloe

What the hell is this point of this conversation other than to pat yourself on the back

Can we not

Didn’t you know that ego’s more important than solving the game?

@Alice

PoE for me rn’s at thepigeonnyc, Silviu, Zone_Q11, Ruri, Marl, LiL, Psyx, and Appelsiini.

Bruh

[Marluxion]

(that was needlessly smug but i wanted to say alberto einstein because my headcanon is that he’s einstein’s hispanic cousin who knows very little about anything)

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

the fact that i’ve been here talking to myself for quite a bit or the fact that i’m the top poster

I’m halfway through backreading. Haven’t seen your spamfest yet.

[Marluxion]

It’s all high quality, don’t call my meat spam
it’s at least like
pork

[Marluxion]

also if i die n1 i expect this gif to be posted after you vote out a mafia

[Vulgard]

@Chloe

Also this is unfair lol

Pigeon isn’t someone who should be read on results and forcing the dude to find a wolf or die when he’s always been a low-impact player is weh

But his response to you was townie tbh

Yeah… hm.

Alice’s treatment of Pigeon is really rubbing me the wrong way. I mostly agree with Chloe that the way he defended himself from Alice felt like a villager’s defense because of how aggro it was. Alice’s push on him reads as very smothering, and the specific unfairness in the post Chloe brought up here is the greatest concern. Pigeon shouldn’t be expected to 100% find a wolf on day 1.

That said, I know her pushes as V can be very aggressive like that regardless of the target’s alignment. I think she’d commit less to the push if she were a wolf pushing on a villager. Or Pigeon’s just a wolf and I’m being stupid thinking his reaction was villagery for him.

I know I was supposed to stop discussing Alice, but.

I actually think the likeliest wolf on the playerlist from who I’ve read so far is LiLi, who I’m already voting. I pretty much agree with Cream that she’s really defensive and the defensiveness is really out of place. She’s struggling to integrate herself into the game, it seems, and the very moment Cream mentions this, she continues to come across as very defensive. Almost scared, even. It’s like Chloe’s anxiety when she’s wolfing, except not really hidden.

Speaking of which, I’m leaning town on Chloe, because I like her takes. That said, her opener notably didn’t suck (others brought it up before and I agree), and most of the time I played with her lately (except for the last game), I scumread her for her opener and she was V. This… probably shouldn’t mean much, though.

[Vulgard]

@Appelsiini

@thepigeonnyc

Nononono pls don’t vote me

@Chloe

Do you promise to play the game and not sideline

This is never W/W
That is all

…Absolutely not. It can be W/W.

I don’t think it is, because I’m leaning village on both rn (Chloe’s defense of him felt villagery and not TMI-laden, while his posts on Alice felt more aggro than anything his scumgame had ever been able to muster), but the posts you quoted don’t make it impossible at all. Why did you think it was the case?

[Vulgard]

@thepigeonnyc

I explained that I think you’re scum not just for pushing me but making all your reads about who I “TMIed” as Town and wolf, which is crazy preflipping, especially so early into day.

Said by someone who had recently preflipped Alice as W/W with Centuries because she softly defended him at some point.

Something something hypocrisy is a town trait?

[Marluxion]

@Vulgard

Something something hypocrisy is a town trait?

the last time i called out hypocrisy it was from you and you were a wolf though

[Psyx]

@LiLi041

This feels like a Cream thing to say |-^)/

Alignment-indicative or not? I mean, unless you think Cream’s posts could be workshopped or something lol

@Cream

Lili, if I can’t find you as town on D1.

I am yeeting you as scum on D2.

Are you offering to be the Lissi Tunnel Experience™ litmus tester this time?

@Alice

I don’t think Cent would fake such an elaborate RT as a wolf from crumbing it to the emotional response, so he can go into my villa list with Vul.

You mean it’s not possible that the frustration was coming from wolf trying to use a RT as a justification to push a Pigeon wagon, which Vul ruined? (The frustration was NAI to me, since it’s a response any person would make if their plans were messed up)

@LiLi041

deadlines are ew

Same thought on the deadlines. I’d like @Cream to expand on why it has to be D1.

@LiLi041

that post just sounded like the thing that people do like “oh you’re a towny town right? oh but also if you’re alive D3 you should be lynched”.

You disliked that? I like it myself since it can be used by the target a town (as in it would help them survive to D3 and buy more time to make reads).

@LiLi041

I hope I can at least count on Zone and Psyx to correctly TR me but it really doesn’t feel good reading your post

Why do you think Cream can’t correctly townread you? She said “if I can’t find you town D1”.

[Vulgard]

@Alice

The not W/W read was extremely weak and I’m p sure that she’s capable of doing far better?

Not just that, it’s also too confident, considering the posts themselves aren’t so strong as to remove the W/W association.

I’d also give her time. I think there’s a method I can use to read her, but I’ll have to see if she does certain things. I’ll bring this method up later in the day.

@Alice

His entire angle of attacking me because of my n0 reeks.

I put his mech play at a level above the usual people who act antitown when they village, so for him to go apeshit over my n0 feels as if he’s doing this shit in bad faith and is intentionally being antitown.

This read’s partially OMGUS, but yeah.

Villagery.

@Cream

I think Alice was really adamant about being the best wolf with some really high scum winrate. And I feel like if Alice was scum, she wouldn’t be driving in that point so hard. Like, as wolf, why would you want to brag about how good your scumgame is and make everyone paranoid af about you? I feel like wolves would just be like, “lol yeah my scumgame ain’t that hot” and want to be a little underestimated.

Villagery, and I agree.

@Alice

I literally did this exact thing in a recent wolfgame lol.

…AgreeD? Still think the take alone is villagery for Cream.

Also, I’mma pull an Appel.

Alice/Marl not W/W Except I think there’s a lot of evidence for it in their case.

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

the last time i called out hypocrisy it was from you and you were a wolf though

That’s why I framed it as a question.