[VFM] A Hat in Time Cop13er - Town Wins!

[Chloe]

Thinking this is a PoE game

I’m having a hard time pinpointing any wolves

Lame
I wanted a d1 dunk

[Alice]

@Chloe

I have zero clue how to read Zone anymore after DITF so I’m fairly comfortable sheeping the people who have more experience with him

I have no confidence in either direction wrt his alignment

I think he can get got so far.

In general he doesn’t really seem to be solving and much of his posts were just talking about past meta IRT Psyx/Cream/LiLi.

Like, he just shoved Cream as town and doesn’t really seem to be interested in solving the alignments of the other two at all. I don’t want to townread him for self-destructing as that’s a fairly easy thing to replicate as W and he knows that we’re aware of this so I want to see actual content from him.

[Alice]

@Chloe

Thinking this is a PoE game

Basically what I’ve thought.

Just find enough villagers as thread feels fairly villagery and I don’t see anyone outright howling.

[Alice]

Meh, just re-read LiLi and she kinda of doesn’t really have any town pings.

I thought that there was a thought process behind how she handled Centuries’ slot but it’s just her talking about how the thread went IRT Centuries and it’s more like just IIoA.

[Psyx]

@Chloe

The long and short of it is that he’s got the fire that I expect of his towngame
If I’m being honest a lot of my read is founded on meta - this just feels like villamarl. It’s hard to go into much more detail than “he feels like an obvious villager.”
Dude isn’t afraid of anything or how he’s perceived by anyone, and his reads are always wack af but have drive behind them. I believe that he believes in his reads

How is he as wolf in comparison to his towngame?

@Cream

So this is kind of late and kinda not relevant to what’s being discussed right now, but I had a thought regarding that long back-and-forth about who the better wolf was between Alice/Centuries/Chloe/etc. I think Alice was really adamant about being the best wolf with some really high scum winrate. And I feel like if Alice was scum, she wouldn’t be driving in that point so hard. Like, as wolf, why would you want to brag about how good your scumgame is and make everyone paranoid af about you? I feel like wolves would just be like, “lol yeah my scumgame ain’t that hot” and want to be a little underestimated.

I’m pretty sure that depends on the type of player and can’t be applied to everyone. Look at Zone (in NUF, not here).

@Cream

Got it got it… I accept that my reads are prob gonna be trash this game due to not really having meta on you guys, but I’ll try my best.

Are you joining the meta detective sect?

@Cream

I will say that Lili tends to be incredibly defensive as town. We just got out of a game where someone scumcased her and she got so riled up that she went on this gigarant.

Lili’s defensive no matter her alignment. What I usually use as basis for reading her are her actual rebuttals and defense.

@Cream

I would say that her being overly defensive tends to be >randtown. I am kind of awful at tonereading and would probably want Zone/Psyx’s input about her response. But from that post you quoted, I think it does lean town, (though I think it’s not entirely out of her scumrange).

I think I’ve already said this before (in disc iirc), but wolf!Lili can easily jump tone hurdles so…

@Alice

Because none of these people have actually caught me before?

Vulgard repeatedly misreads me, take SFoL63, RM4, and that FoL where I strongmanned Katze, and what have you. Marl has also frequently misread me except for Double Date where he still failed to convince the town to lynch me and I carried the wolves to victory, and Chloe literally asked me for a masonry before she subbed out in the only V/W game we’ve had. And I don’t think Appel would ever catch me, let alone get me lynched with her slanky thread presence.

As I said before, I have never been caught on FoL without mechanics.

The only players who’ve actually managed to catch me and get me lynched in my entire FM career were Apoc, Beck, and bearsquared. And it took both Apoc and bearsquared to dunk on me simultaneously for me to be eliminated.

I can fake tone. I can fake emotion. I can fake solving. I can fake conviction. I can fake perspective. And in general I have the highest wolfrange of the people on this site. There’s a reason why people talk about Alice paranoia on FoL but you never see shit like Marl paranoia or Vulgard paranoia.

Just because I rarely rand W on this site doesn’t mean that my wolfgame is a joke.

Hmm…I see. Well then I’m scumleaning you, since talking this way about your wolfgame should be in the range for your wolfgame.

@Zone_Q11

…“no”. I don’t like this.

/vote Alice

Pressure LiLi. Don’t rescind without getting info.

Why don’t you pressure her yourself.

@Zone_Q11

I skim-read everything, and I don’t exactly feel any attachments yet as of now. I want Alice to put LiLi under high pressure so we can read her, and I don’t like how Alice just backs off so easily.

She hasn’t even responded yet bruh, but you immediately vote her.

@Vulgard

But then I realized it made sense for n0 treatment.

What’s N0 treatment?

@Vulgard

Because I’m not great at wolf theater reads to begin with.

Humor me and try doing it anyway? I just wanna see your thought process, never mind if it’s “correct or not”.

@Marluxion

Also anyone who was shocked at how obviously town I am needs to read Psyx’s posts

They are the most obvious villager in the history of obvious village

I feel like you’re just planting death flags for me at this point…

@LiLi041

Yes the struggle is real because your tones are all out of wack and I was freaking tired

…since when did you use tone for your reads? Aside from that “cute” read on Alexfilia?

@LiLi041

??

Alice’s and Pigeon’s interactions felt t/t to me, basically (at that point. Right now I’m scumleaning Alice). I could see both stances coming from a town. I should’ve placed that section outside the “if there’s one wolf in these interactions” for clarity’s sake but welp.

@LiLi041

Like when does Cream ever say “um”??

New site, new people. Zone is acting different from usual, you’re acting different from usual

@thepigeonnyc

Yes. I find it crazy that people would read me off of one post made when not much was going on, without considering factors such as irl. It feels like a Wolf trying to throw scumreads in hope of finding a wagon, but I don’t actually see a real Wolf actually doing it as it would look really bad for them.

??? So what’s your read on Alice and Centuries now, then?

@Cream

But I mean, c’mon. Lili should be easy to read when she’s town. If we’re having problems finding her as town, that’s kind of a problem, no?

Maybe for you and Zone. It’s hard for me to read her when she’s tunneling, for one. I’ll write my thoughts on the players after this.

@Cream

Psyx is town guys.

Unless she somehow managed to 180 her scum game, she’s definitely town here.

I’m really happy for some reason.

(Expansion: Psyx doesn’t like randing scum. When she’s scum, she tends to resort to IIOA posting (though I did tell her that was a flaw in her scumplay like last week). She tends to be inactive, maybe from wolfy nervousness to post. I’m not seeing any of that here. I see her questioning multiple people. Her reads so far definitely are at a level that I expect them to be.

I think the only doubt in my mind is that Psyx said she wanted to openwolf/powerwolf as scum. Which… I guess what she’s doing now kinda counts if she is indeed scum? Though I think there is a large difference between wanting to play a certain way and actually being able to.)

You weren’t in the Underworld Fiasco spec chat, were you? Townlean.

@LiLi041

instead of just pressuring me yourself if you wanted that kind of read so much

@LiLi041

Also
why can’t you just go the individual pressure route

last time in Eggnog it wasn’t everyone either

why do you need “everyone” or “thread control” to do anything

Seems like we’re seeing the same stuff again, but then again you were neutral in that game when we had a mindmeld in terms of Glass and Nyann so not alignment-indicative.

@Vulgard

The Cream/Zone/LiLi back and forth is all giving me information overload and there’s probably a wolf in there.

+1

@Zone_Q11

Huh… Hey @Psyx, @Cream, do you see what I see?

? …Maybe?

@LiLi041

Psyx ping me when you’re done reading!!! I’m gonna go do my hw now

Done skimming! o/

@LiLi041

summary’s like
centuries and vulgard feel each other out to be town
pigeon appears with a hi and centuries thinks he’s mafia bc opener
chloe comes in but isn’t nearly as consensus town, not sure why, didn’t make a big impression on me either tbh

vulgard says some weird stuff here and there in between the big posts that show a towny mindset according to some others, but I don’t think people are keen on pointing it out
centuries is consensus town but marl comes in and says not really and then he’s not anymore

cream is consensus strong town but alice doesn’t thinks so (changes mind slowly after)
big discussion on pigeon bc he ISOed Alice and it didn’t make sense

alice’s poe is meh, marl summed it up as “just him + non-posters + LHFs”

everyone’s had someone else townread them or something at one point (zone said the thread was full of bootlicking/praising or something?)

aaand then I wake up

==
this summary’s probably missing a lot but anyways
Zone can give a summary too maybe

Thank you~

@Appelsiini

…To be honest, I think it’s been a while since I’ve played with Chloe? I don’t remember much from her wolfgame, but she tends to have a pure tone as town and her thoughts are disorganized in a villagery way

What’s she like as wolf?

[Psyx]

Gonna take a break for now (omg it’s already 2AM) and then I’ll write my initial thoughts. o/

[Cream]

I think lili and Zone aren’t W/W, mostly due to how lili is interacting with Zone.

As far as I can remember, scum theatre isn’t really her thing. I think this is mostly due to her inexperience as a wolf, when you have a tendency to kind of avoid interacting with your scumbuddies.

Her back-and-forth interaction with Zone has been overextensive, to the point that I kind of doubt them both being wolves.

[Alice]

If she can’t theater like this then the solve is probably something like 1-2 of the 0-posters, 1 of Zone/LiLi, and potentially someone I misread in Appel/Marl/Cent or just Pidgeon, tbfh.

[Alice]

/vote Silviu

[Alice]

Kinda don’t wanna flip Zone/LiLi rn as I’d rather zero in the likely wolf in that interaction first in order to clear the other, tho.

[Chloe]

@Marluxion

Okay that was the fastest 180 I’ve done on a read in a long time

You can join town core zone

Even I know zone enough to say he isn’t towncore material yet

@Cream

Objectively Zone, your reads so far are the sort of watered down tequila that the bartender pours you because you don’t tip.

Your tantrum can either come from town as genuine anger or from either alignment as some sort of WIFOM-y thing that you are doing to make us townread you.

You’ve mostly just commented on Lili and me, and I don’t see any strong, good commentary from you in regards to the other players.

If you are town, what are you doing?

lol i love this post

A small portion of my townread on cream stems from the fact that i love the way they express their thoughts, and their wordchoice - which has burned me in the past (ie. Prophylaxis in DITF) but man
I’m here for it

@Vulgard

It’s been all over the place. I disliked his opener, because it seemed he didn’t want to be here and play the game. I liked his response to Alice’s push on him, because it was aggressive - pigeon definitely tries to go under the radar as mafia. However, his reasoning surrounding Alice being mafia, and his later takes, have all been questionable at best and I fail to follow the logic behind them. Gun to head I’d probably still say he’s town, but.

Same same

---

Where the heck did Centuries go lol
The dude said he didn’t want to lead but he kinda just dipped
I don’t think its AI but I want more from him because I’m not fully comfy there ;p

---

I’m reading LiLi’s posts but I’m having a hard time figuring out their mindset. Nothing pings me either way yet and I feel guilty for saying that because they have quite a few posts lol. They should be readable but the brain machine isn’t workin’
There’s also the fact that a lot of it is back-and-forth with Zone which I’m admittedly kinda just skimming because I don’t understand half of what is going on

---

@LiLi041

anyways this is kinda random
but I was just thinking of it

anyways
I think Appel’s town from her interaction with me/Zone
like the reasons for voting and stuff

This is kinda a barebones read with no true explanation, and I’d appreciate if you went into more detail, but I do agree

@Alice

…I feel Chloe/Centuries have a point and because of how villagery most current posters are that there’s a pretty decent chance of there being at least 1 wolf in Silviu/Phraze, tbfh.

Yup

It’s uhhh… maybe not alignment indicative, but Silviu not posting at all feels incredibly off
The dude is usually very vocal

@Alice

Tbfh, a lot of his posts are just defending himself and this is basically one of the few posts that pigeon makes that does not involve himself and he still makes no judgment on it.

Wouldn’t mind if this gets chopped, tbfh.

Yeah I’m not very impressed anymore

My gut still says he flips villa but like
Not much my gut can do when he’s not doing anything

---

I gotta go for a little bit

I might try re-reading some stuff later so I can get a better grasp of LiLi’s posts, as it feels like they’re a very important slot to solve

Brb

[Appelsiini]

@Centuries

Also to the people who noticed the same thing I did, it doesn’t make you a villager if you believe the same thing I do but basically let it happen naturally don’t enforce that take this early like if it happens again then go for it, also wolves are more likely to get what I’m saying so I’m not really keen on townreading anyone who thinks as I do

@Centuries

I genuinely believe it’s super easy to solve that whole thing if you don’t talk whereas if you talk about it’s genuinely going to make the whole thread revolve agaisnt something that might not even mean anything, basically, if you get me, don’t talk, and if you don’t get what I’m saying, then don’t try and find out

Reading this again with a clear mind and hindsight, this is actually towny

I doubt a wolf would go this far for a read that’s essentially just “Pigeon popping in and dipping is wolfy, but let’s not focus on that” unless they’re exactly W/W. To be honest, I doubt a wolf would go that far to soft-defend their partner even before they’re pushed, so scrap that

[Alice]

@Chloe

A small portion of my townread on cream stems from the fact that i love the way they express their thoughts, and their wordchoice - which has burned me in the past (ie. Prophylaxis in DITF) but man
I’m here for it

You can’t really compare the wolfgames of a player who’s barely had a wolfgame like Cream and a veteran like Prop, tbfh.

Unless Cream’s a genius wolf then she’s just a villager here.

[Cream]

@Psyx

Are you joining the meta detective sect?

Well, I use meta as mostly a baseline understanding of what a person is capable of. I might use meta in early game reads since there is little in-game content to go off of. But as the game evolves, my reliance on meta lessens.

@Psyx

You weren’t in the Underworld Fiasco spec chat, were you? Townlean.

No I wasn’t. o_o IDK how that’s relevant but ok.

[Alice]

@Chloe

Yup

It’s uhhh… maybe not alignment indicative, but Silviu not posting at all feels incredibly off
The dude is usually very vocal

Yeah. If I had to yeet a 0-poster then I’d probably kill Silviu over Phraze as she’s an extremely easy player for me to read.

[Cream]

Dumb question: Is Silviu a guy and Phraze a girl?

[Alice]

I’m not sure about Silviu’s gender but Phraze/Ruri is a girl.

[Appelsiini]

Vul had some incredibly awkward comedy attempts in the beginning, but other than that, his solving is good. The back-and-forth between Cent and Vul was awkward from both sides, but they were the only people posting so I’m willing to give that a pass

@Vulgard

He’s attacking the reasoning by claiming it’s textbook, and immediately mentions the possibility of Chloe being wrong, even when she hasn’t even gone anywhere with this yet.

He’d just floated the idea of me being >rand W for my opening string of posts, but when Chloe starts agreeing with him, he turns it around on her.

At first I thought Centuries was TMIng me V here. Judging by his earlier posts about me, he doesn’t have a reason to go after Chloe, because Chloe’s pushing me in the game’s first hour. She’s pushing someone he’d suspected, if only a bit. Why push her in subtle retaliation?

But then I realized it might not be that at all, and a wolf going from “Vulgard is >rand W” to “Chloe’s W read on Vulgard is questionable” is more of a villagery thing to do progression-wise. Might as well help Chloe arouse early suspicion around my slot regardless of her alignment of you’re a w!Centuries, right? It’s helpful. And I think it’d fit Centuries’ wolf play pattern more.

So, basically, him meandering and stumbling from his early treatment of me toward how he’s treating Chloe’s arguments right now is villagery, I think. It’s a strange progression to have if you’re a wolf. To voice mild suspicion around my slot, and then move toward suspecting the next person suspicious of my slot… it’s like he was trying to jebait someone into suspecting me? And that’s… a weird thing to do if you’re a wolf kickstarting the game?

Admittedly, I’m not really considering the “wolf theater” option, but yeah.

This is very jumbled.

@Vulgard

Yeah… hm.

Alice’s treatment of Pigeon is really rubbing me the wrong way. I mostly agree with Chloe that the way he defended himself from Alice felt like a villager’s defense because of how aggro it was. Alice’s push on him reads as very smothering, and the specific unfairness in the post Chloe brought up here is the greatest concern. Pigeon shouldn’t be expected to 100% find a wolf on day 1.

That said, I know her pushes as V can be very aggressive like that regardless of the target’s alignment. I think she’d commit less to the push if she were a wolf pushing on a villager. Or Pigeon’s just a wolf and I’m being stupid thinking his reaction was villagery for him.

I know I was supposed to stop discussing Alice, but.

I actually think the likeliest wolf on the playerlist from who I’ve read so far is LiLi, who I’m already voting. I pretty much agree with Cream that she’s really defensive and the defensiveness is really out of place. She’s struggling to integrate herself into the game, it seems, and the very moment Cream mentions this, she continues to come across as very defensive. Almost scared, even. It’s like Chloe’s anxiety when she’s wolfing, except not really hidden.

Speaking of which, I’m leaning town on Chloe, because I like her takes. That said, her opener notably didn’t suck (others brought it up before and I agree), and most of the time I played with her lately (except for the last game), I scumread her for her opener and she was V. This… probably shouldn’t mean much, though.

This is like
Obvtown levels of posting

I don’t think Vul would form a V read on Centuries that’s Centered around himself right after being scumread by the only people that were existing at the time, and push that narrative. In other words… it shows a towny lack of self-awareness?

[Appelsiini]

@Alice

I’m not sure about Silviu’s gender but Phraze/Ruri is a girl.

Pretty sure Silviu’s a guy, yeah

[Appelsiini]

Pigeon continues to be whatever

Lots of awkward posting and IIoA regarding his push on Alice

@thepigeonnyc

Scumread Alice, slight scumlean Centuries, you, Marl, and Chloe Town.

Are you scumleaning 3 people or just Centuries here?