[VFM] A Hat in Time Cop13er - Town Wins!

[Vulgard]

@Chloe

Also this is unfair lol

Pigeon isn’t someone who should be read on results and forcing the dude to find a wolf or die when he’s always been a low-impact player is weh

But his response to you was townie tbh

Yeah… hm.

Alice’s treatment of Pigeon is really rubbing me the wrong way. I mostly agree with Chloe that the way he defended himself from Alice felt like a villager’s defense because of how aggro it was. Alice’s push on him reads as very smothering, and the specific unfairness in the post Chloe brought up here is the greatest concern. Pigeon shouldn’t be expected to 100% find a wolf on day 1.

That said, I know her pushes as V can be very aggressive like that regardless of the target’s alignment. I think she’d commit less to the push if she were a wolf pushing on a villager. Or Pigeon’s just a wolf and I’m being stupid thinking his reaction was villagery for him.

I know I was supposed to stop discussing Alice, but.

I actually think the likeliest wolf on the playerlist from who I’ve read so far is LiLi, who I’m already voting. I pretty much agree with Cream that she’s really defensive and the defensiveness is really out of place. She’s struggling to integrate herself into the game, it seems, and the very moment Cream mentions this, she continues to come across as very defensive. Almost scared, even. It’s like Chloe’s anxiety when she’s wolfing, except not really hidden.

Speaking of which, I’m leaning town on Chloe, because I like her takes. That said, her opener notably didn’t suck (others brought it up before and I agree), and most of the time I played with her lately (except for the last game), I scumread her for her opener and she was V. This… probably shouldn’t mean much, though.

[Vulgard]

@Appelsiini

@thepigeonnyc

Nononono pls don’t vote me

@Chloe

Do you promise to play the game and not sideline

This is never W/W
That is all

…Absolutely not. It can be W/W.

I don’t think it is, because I’m leaning village on both rn (Chloe’s defense of him felt villagery and not TMI-laden, while his posts on Alice felt more aggro than anything his scumgame had ever been able to muster), but the posts you quoted don’t make it impossible at all. Why did you think it was the case?

[Vulgard]

@thepigeonnyc

I explained that I think you’re scum not just for pushing me but making all your reads about who I “TMIed” as Town and wolf, which is crazy preflipping, especially so early into day.

Said by someone who had recently preflipped Alice as W/W with Centuries because she softly defended him at some point.

Something something hypocrisy is a town trait?

[Marluxion]

@Vulgard

Something something hypocrisy is a town trait?

the last time i called out hypocrisy it was from you and you were a wolf though

[Psyx]

@LiLi041

This feels like a Cream thing to say |-^)/

Alignment-indicative or not? I mean, unless you think Cream’s posts could be workshopped or something lol

@Cream

Lili, if I can’t find you as town on D1.

I am yeeting you as scum on D2.

Are you offering to be the Lissi Tunnel Experience™ litmus tester this time?

@Alice

I don’t think Cent would fake such an elaborate RT as a wolf from crumbing it to the emotional response, so he can go into my villa list with Vul.

You mean it’s not possible that the frustration was coming from wolf trying to use a RT as a justification to push a Pigeon wagon, which Vul ruined? (The frustration was NAI to me, since it’s a response any person would make if their plans were messed up)

@LiLi041

deadlines are ew

Same thought on the deadlines. I’d like @Cream to expand on why it has to be D1.

@LiLi041

that post just sounded like the thing that people do like “oh you’re a towny town right? oh but also if you’re alive D3 you should be lynched”.

You disliked that? I like it myself since it can be used by the target a town (as in it would help them survive to D3 and buy more time to make reads).

@LiLi041

I hope I can at least count on Zone and Psyx to correctly TR me but it really doesn’t feel good reading your post

Why do you think Cream can’t correctly townread you? She said “if I can’t find you town D1”.

[Vulgard]

@Alice

The not W/W read was extremely weak and I’m p sure that she’s capable of doing far better?

Not just that, it’s also too confident, considering the posts themselves aren’t so strong as to remove the W/W association.

I’d also give her time. I think there’s a method I can use to read her, but I’ll have to see if she does certain things. I’ll bring this method up later in the day.

@Alice

His entire angle of attacking me because of my n0 reeks.

I put his mech play at a level above the usual people who act antitown when they village, so for him to go apeshit over my n0 feels as if he’s doing this shit in bad faith and is intentionally being antitown.

This read’s partially OMGUS, but yeah.

Villagery.

@Cream

I think Alice was really adamant about being the best wolf with some really high scum winrate. And I feel like if Alice was scum, she wouldn’t be driving in that point so hard. Like, as wolf, why would you want to brag about how good your scumgame is and make everyone paranoid af about you? I feel like wolves would just be like, “lol yeah my scumgame ain’t that hot” and want to be a little underestimated.

Villagery, and I agree.

@Alice

I literally did this exact thing in a recent wolfgame lol.

…AgreeD? Still think the take alone is villagery for Cream.

Also, I’mma pull an Appel.

Alice/Marl not W/W Except I think there’s a lot of evidence for it in their case.

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

the last time i called out hypocrisy it was from you and you were a wolf though

That’s why I framed it as a question.

[Vulgard]

@Alice

I’m p sure that I can easily pocket this entire playerlist here.

I unironically think this makes Alice town, but I’m not going to elaborate on the why. I think she might be able to figure it out.

I’ll explain if I have to.

[Marluxion]

I would definitely rather you explain

[Vulgard]

@Centuries

like once again

why do we care

like that’s the reason i quit playing here

people’s feelings

Half the thread is a discussion about the strength of people’s wolfgames.

Come on, people.

[Marluxion]

Congrats now 40% of the thread is a discussion of people’s wolfgame strength and 10% of the thread is complaining about it

Society thrives

[Marluxion]

i have no idea why i’m responding so savagely

[Vulgard]

Alice isn’t playing like someone who expects to be peeked red. Her posts surrounding her wolfgame are all pretty much begging for a cop check on her tonight. So, unless she already knows who the cop is and will kill them tonight, she should be a villager here.

This doesn’t make her the cop, nor am I outing her as the cop. I’m just saying she probably wouldn’t go on and on about this as a wolf, because the cop exists.

[Vulgard]

@Psyx

What’s your gameplan this game, then? If you’re “keeping expectations regarding your own read accuracy quite low” (aka not confident with your reads), then you’re just gonna sheep, and when people generally misread you (calling you wolf on D1), you’re just gonna keep offering self-meta and won’t have many posts and interactions? Something about this seems weird to me, not gonna lie.

I already pretty much broke the vow I made in that post, so.

I think this is town, by the way.

[Vulgard]

@Appelsiini

@Vulgard

What the FUCK is up?

Except the cat and the ceiling?

When has Vul EVER posted like this
It feels soo so so awkward

I wrote my opener the same way Chloe wrote her wolf openers in the past, word for word, except the cat and ceiling remark. I don’t normally swear, but the reference is slightly cryptic, I guess? I don’t think even Chloe got it.

@Appelsiini

This would otherwise be whatever, but Vul has a habit of narrating his own experiences and meta when he’s town afaik. So this is just weh

I do? I didn’t even realize.

This post is a lot of words without a conclusion of any kind, by the way.

@Psyx

Why aren’t you considering the “wolf theater” option?

Because I’m not great at wolf theater reads to begin with.

[Vulgard]

@Psyx

What does “=rand so 75% v” mean? I don’t understand the following:

Mathematically, in most setups, wolves comprise 25% of the players, and the other 75% are town. Hence =rand W is 25% wolf and =rand V is 75% town.

rand W and >rand V refers to perceived odds above those levels.

[Vulgard]

@Zone_Q11

…“no”. I don’t like this.

/vote Alice

Pressure LiLi. Don’t rescind without getting info.

@Zone_Q11

I skim-read everything, and I don’t exactly feel any attachments yet as of now. I want Alice to put LiLi under high pressure so we can read her, and I don’t like how Alice just backs off so easily.

This feels wolfy.

@Zone_Q11

I think Cream has posted, but if she did, then I don’t recall it being anything of importance

And this is just wrong. Cream’s shared a lot of insights already. Zone claiming she hasn’t reads to me like he doesn’t care about solving her - or doesn’t want to. Doubly suspicious considering they seem to have pregame experience and should want to solve each other. Zone framing her posts as not AI isn’t in good faith. He seems to want to keep her out of towncore by doing this (subtly).

[Vulgard]

@Marluxion

showing up now after i’ve already fully solved the game, vulgard?

You didn’t solve anything. I’m disappointed. I read 400 posts only to find an unsolved game.

Marl bad.

[Vulgard]

@Psyx You’ve asked like 40 questions and drew like 0 independent conclusions / made 0 independent reads. Mind giving us any if you have them?

[Vulgard]

Is Ruri literally 0-posting AI at all? Some people like Marl and Alice have been saying Ruri’s an ez read.