[VFM] A Hat in Time Cop13er - Town Wins!

[Marluxion]

Lili is still probably my top townread because they are so far out of bounds from their last wolf game

Then probably Misty

Then idk

[Mistyx]

nah

i was gonna read you while no one was posting but i got distracted with other stuff

i’ll do it tomorrow

[LiLi041]

Psyx, I read through Centuries ISO (it was so long crii) and your case on him

reply to Psyx's first wallpost on Centuries

@Psyx

Weird because I’d very much trust Cream’s read on Lili than someone who only played 1 game with her but ok.

I feel like he was just joking tbh

@Psyx

I don’t know why town would ever feel the need to be conscious about the “atmosphere” of a game thread since they just need to do their own investigation; wolves, on the other hand, need to keep the state of the gamethread in mind for their plans.

This… ngl, feels like overthinking. I don’t think it’s as black and white alignment-wise as you’re making it out to be.

@Psyx

Okay, fair enough. But my main issue was that I thought he was saying “don’t rolefish, guys” and then later on doing the exact same thing. What’s the difference between immediately claiming your N0, and doing it later, then? Why is the former anti-solving and the latter not?

IDK what he meant by “anti-solving”
I can’t say anything there

But asking for N0… ehh idk
I dunno if asking for an N0 counts as “rolefishing” though, especially when it seems plenty of people here actually have experience with Cop 13’er games and know to cop cover?

@Psyx

First two points are very bad:

1. Vulg’s tone is contrived/fake, but that’s not following the code of textbook wolfy actions (idk who wrote this wolf textbook but isn’t the main difference between town and wolves is that the former is genuine and the latter is fake??), hence it’s not alignment-indicative
2. Vulg is not wolf because if he is, he wouldn’t post like that because he’s not feeling relaxed in an empty thread (why on earth would feeling relaxed or not in an empty thread be alignment-indicative??? Which posts are these referring to? All I remember is Vulg just posting a sleeping emoji?)
3. Vulg is not wolf because he doesn’t reveal his hand like that so early (this is okay, but WIFOM)

It feels like he’s just making explanations out of thin air to defend Vulg against Chloe.

1. I dunno about textbook wolf, but the meaning I kinda got was just TWTBAW. Not that I agree with his point, since what I’m getting is “TWTBAW/so bad/fake it probably doesn’t come from mafia, but I’m not completely sure → =rand”, which doesn’t make much sense if I stare at it really hard, but anyways.
2. This point actually makes sense. It’s a meta read (?) that I can see being true- like for example, some people, when randing mafia, feel uncomfortable talking when there’s no one else there, and prefer lurking or something. The posting might refer to the first three posts (including vote on me?) rather than the emoji
3. I think the “hand” just refers to “saying his reads are bad”. You’re right that it’s WIFOM, but it’s WIFOM that does make sense imo.

So do you think this means he and Vulg are W/W or something? Because I don’t think I can see any other motivation otherwise, unless it’s pocketing but ehhh it’s not even a strong, pocket-worthy “defense”. It honestly just looks like a normal discussion (i.e. Person A: I think XX. Person B: I disagree because YY). There’s not even much to defend against in the first place, you know?

@Psyx

So this is the part where he makes his test for Pidgeon, and it’s weird how he started it with “I’m seeing this thing, and anyone else who sees it is likely a wolf” and says “that thing is super easy to solve but if you talk about it it’s gonna derail the thread and it might not even mean anything in the first place” which is a pretty weird thing to say if he was planning on making a case for it. If he townleaned Vulg for not revealing his hand easily, then wouldn’t it also be possible that Vulg either (a) didn’t caught unto what he was doing or (b) wouldn’t distance from/defend a wolfbuddy so blatantly? But Centuries immediately discards his townlean and votes for Vulg instead.

If we think mindset-wise, don’t you think discarding townleans (that read sorta uncertain to me in the first place) when someone does something you think is suspicious is more of a town thing than a mafia thing? After all, we’re all uncertain about who the wolves are. Sure, someone might feel towny at first, but if they do something suspicious, it’s very easy to feel even more uncertain and flip reads.

I think from the PoV he wrote, his readflip made sense. Yes, you could argue “that’s opportunistic!mafia”, but I mean… he flipped it again soon after because Vulgard was solving and he liked that.

As for your actual questions, I think it’s like:

1. wolves are “more likely to see it than town” because they have TMI (especially if they were W/W with Pigeon, as Centuries states later)
2. “don’t talk about it if you see it because it will ruin the [RT]”
3. Vulg has a townlean because mafia!Vulg probably wouldn’t say that his reads are bad.
4. Vulg basically just ruined the RT (or at least… observe in silence?) by calling the action in question out and then saying it was NAI.

I don’t think (3) and (4) are related.

@Psyx

Disregarding posts (“as good as not having posted”) seems to be the first step into cherry-picking the posts you want to focus on (what wolves tend to do) instead of looking at the big picture (what town should do).

This… seems like overthinking (once again)
“As good as not having posted” is kinda just like, “hasn’t showed up yet”. Any inactive player’s alignment is just 50/50 (one definition of =rand) as compared to “according to the town-mafia ratio, any inactive’s a 75/25” (another definition of =rand, I guess?).

I don’t think this actually = mafia.

@Psyx

So what’s your actual stance on him, then? All I’m seeing from you is “x might be this buuuuut x might also be that”, and when other people have the same opinions as you you all go “oh nono you’re wrong, they’re actually this” (but still with some caveats like bruh make up your mind).

I think, that when his RT was a failure and there was just that one post, a “meh” read makes sense, although he specifically put Pigeon in his W tier before, idk.

And IDK about the caveats stuff. I think he has been pretty firm on pointing out what he thinks is a towny post and what isn’t. There honestly isn’t a lot of hedging (like, he’s not going “well y’know that’s towny BUT ALSO [shade][nitpicking][scummy]”, he’s actually just been like “obvious villager” and stuff) there, and I don’t actually see the “all” part that you’re saying.

@Psyx

In my book it does. When someone does something I don’t understand, I feel like they have some hidden agenda, and wolves are more likely to have hidden agenda than town.

I don’t quite agree with this (Zone being an example for me), but it’s more personal opinion, I guess.

@Psyx

Why can’t you be w/w with Pigeon? Looking back your plan for him seemed pretty much geared towards setting up traps for people who “ruin it” or comment on your posts, what with the way you jumped on Vulg. And when Alice started pushing for a Pigeon lynch you defended him, but not so much to actually rock the boat. If Pigeon actually flips scum you’ll definitely be milking the fact that you made such a plan (but too bad someone just had to ruin it boohoo) for what it’s worth, would you? You being so wishy-washy makes me think you’re just placing yourself into the most advantageous position and start pushing or defending people as you see fit, and who does that? Wolves.

I’m not sure here. I’ll discount the W/W read since he himself is the one who said so, but like… I can kinda (?) see progression in the pigeon thing? Like scumlean → meh idk maybe NAI → pigeon calls Centuries town (TWTBAW) for SL-ing him for saying “hello humans” → Centuries thinks pigeon is solving sorta, and it’s different from his mafia meta).

It did happen pretty fast, but I wouldn’t say it’s a completely unreasonable flip.

Also imo asking for reason behind a vote, even if it’s on someone you think is scummy, doesn’t really mean “defense”, it’s just… normal.

@Psyx

Didn’t you say you had a “100% read accuracy on Lili”? What’s with the “maybe probably”? lol

I’m pretty sure the first post was just a joke. There’s no reason for a wolf to out TMI in such a way, you know. It’s akin to saying that I was mafia for tl-ing Iyana last game for the simple reason that she posted.

It’s just an all around stupid move as mafia imo.

@Psyx

Weren’t you townreading Cream earlier? What happened for you to bump her down to NV?

This is a good observation. I’m actually not sure, but it is weird hmm /shrug

@Psyx

You’re being hedgey in a way where no matter what your townreads/scumreads flip, you’ll be able to explain yourself by saying “oh I didn’t really think they were town/scum because look, I said this earlier” and if that isn’t AI I dunno what is. How is being hedgey solvy in any way?

Difference in opinion here, no comment

@Psyx

The amount of times you said wolf says otherwise.

…That’s… not really.

@Psyx

Didn’t you say you were finding town members from thought process? Because that’s what I’m doing, I’m explaining mine. Too bad they’re thoughts revealing how scummy are, so why not just OMGUS vote me and call it a day, eh?

I don’t really agree with him that what you said in that line was just padding word count. But I will be honest, the two lines he quoted “It doesn’t help that most his paragraphs don’t have periods which makes it hard to follow his train of thought. Sus vibes.”, don’t really show… analyzation thought process, if you get what I mean.

The first sentence is a complaint about something I think’s NAI (i.e. punctuation- like… I don’t think anyone would purposely remove punctuation or whatever to make their posts more unreadable, you know?) and the second sentence is a feeling. Which isn’t actually a thought process imo.

Understandably, while saying that would make me understand how you feel better, if you told that to me, I’d be mad too.

@Psyx

It obviously means I didn’t have the opportunity to look at them yet, because I don’t have a gigabrain that can keep track of every single player. It’s not like you have reads on everyone either bruh.

While I don’t think it means you don’t care about solving/you should have a complete read on everyone, I do think it would’ve been better if you didn’t post them in the first place. Even if you did, it might have been better to not phrase them as “7. Vulgard - null (bc XX), 8. Marl - null (bc XX)” like they’re all separate slots you’ve done analyses on.

Maybe saying “Haven’t had a chance to look at in depth: Vulgard (tho at first XX)/Marl/Appel/Silviu/Ruri” would have been better in expressing that?

@Psyx

Oh wow my single preliminary reads are delaying the game clapclap. It’s not like they’re complete cases yet, they’re literally just thoughts. But you don’t need to worry about that because I’m going to be looking at them after this.

I just plain disagree with him there lol
His points here also seem a little ehh (like too nitpicky), but I don’t actually think this makes him mafia (since I feel like I would’ve reacted the same had I been in his position- like- you SR me? okki lemme attack all of your posts as much as I can, even if it’s a stretch) ftr

@Psyx

That’s actually what I mean. “I don’t like” is just another term that I use alongside “this is wolfy behavior”, “I don’t see thing coming from town”, etc.

I think this was just a difference in term definitions ngl

@Psyx

Why doesn’t it make any sense, then? Explain why I’m wrong?

/shrug
He probably just doesn’t agree with anything here?

@Psyx

Her investigation reads off as wanting everyone to share their thoughts so she can make her judgement on it without any bias, and I don’t feel any hidden agenda coming from her. Unless you’re telling me that I’m wrong?

I think that the lack of detail on Chloe in comparison to everyone else (or at least, the lack in paragraph size) is something obvious to anyone, but I think you explaining more in depth in your reply here is good, though my comment on this is probably off-topic.

@Psyx

At least I’ve got better punctuation than you :V

…okki, even you can see the problem with your argument here, yes?

@Psyx

TL;DR Centuries is strong-arming people to do what he wants, he flipflops on his reads on people without explanation and when he does deign give us his thoughts they are chock full of “I gueeeeess?? But also maybeeee”, and a good number of his posts are just spamfests that don’t actually contribute to the thread (and he has the gall to call my reads useless like ahahahhaha nice joke, you should be a comedian) This slot reeks of ulterior motives and that’s scummy with a capital S.

I dunno… I’m really not seeing the ulterior motives/strong-arming. Coming from someone who has taken the effort and 2 hours to actually read into the points you’re referring to in his ISO… I think he’s town.

tl;dr: Psyx, to put it nicely, some of your points seem to be a result of overthinking/overgeneralization/maybe just a little tunneling. I can see a lot of where he is coming from, and I feel that the argument between you guys is the result of different viewpoints and the SR on him.

I think both of you are town.

…And I know you still have a pt. 2 to your wallpost but ahhh crii I need a break seriously writing this burned me out. Anyways, tell me what you think when you come back.

[Ruri]

No EOD yet?

[LiLi041]

what?

[Ruri]

Really?

[LiLi041]

…EOD’s at the same time every day

There’s like 19 hours left

[Ruri]

Honestly, I’m considering voting Silviu now.

[LiLi041]

Why?

[Ruri]

Well, I’m not sure where the EOD timer is.

[LiLi041]

@EliThePsycho

Day 2 begins and will end Tomorrow 6:00 PM !

With 11 alive, majority is 6.

@Ruri here

[Ruri]

Silviu seems to be dodging votes, and wanted me to quickly make another player a wagon.

[LiLi041]

Ah, well that’s in EST. For reference, it’s 11 pm here right now.
So ~19 hours.

[LiLi041]

Dodging votes…?
Is self-pres scummy now?

[LiLi041]

Y’know what
this is a perfect time to look at Silviu’s good posts that he linked

[LiLi041]

@Ruri

Silviu seems to be dodging votes, and wanted me to quickly make another player a wagon.

Ruri can you explain what you mean here? Maybe link posts?

Also,
what’s your read of me right now?

[LiLi041]

@LiLi041

Centuries ISO (it was so long crii)

wait btw
let me clarify this, I realize it might be misleading

I didn’t read his whole ISO
I only read the relevant parts to your ISO, Psyx

…I suppose I’ll read the later parts when I reply to your second post, but from what I’ve read so far, I think he’s town

[Ruri]

Wanted me to place a vote before I left. I didn’t do so in case of accidental hammers.

And, currently unsure about you.

[LiLi041]

…Okay, I appreciate the honesty at least…

Can I fix my question
More specifically I meant, do you believe those points that you said about me earlier?

[LiLi041]

@Ruri

Wanted me to place a vote before I left.

But this isn’t even scummy…???