[VFM] A Hat in Time Cop13er - Town Wins!

[LiLi041]

@clonedcheese

Ruri is accusing vulgard of the second (attacking a lowposter and being lazy), but the accusation is quite different in nature as you can see

what’s different from what?

[LiLi041]

@LiLi041

because like

here, isn’t it also SR Ruri w/ reasons

I’m not even saying this makes Ruri town because I agree with the take here

I’m just saying I don’t see how it makes Vulgard towny

[LiLi041]

@Ruri

I noticed Chloe and Cream were part of some argument or solving in backreading. General engagement with thread. Marl, I have no idea of, but they’re fairly good at wolfing it seems. Vulgard, I’m not sure of. LiL is just POE, never checked or saw posts so far.

Also @Psyx Ruri did reply to Appel asking her for her reads, turns out

Appel didn’t reply to this with the reply function tho

[LiLi041]

also I kinda skimmed Ruri’s first 100 posts just now

I felt so frustrated when talking to her but I mean when I just read them… they’re not actually that awful

I can see them coming from town so yeah

[clonedcheese]

@LiLi041

where did your post say that

I dont think it did

Im just saying thats generally how scumgard works?

@LiLi041

what’s different from what?

Ruri’s accusing vulgard of:

@Ruri

They’ve been pretty opportunistic, going for the zero posters early on.

But if u actually look at vulgard thats not whats been happening

Yeah i acknowledge that my towncase kinda turned into “ruri bad” halfway through but w/e

[LiLi041]

@clonedcheese

I dont think it did

Im just saying thats generally how scumgard works?

I mean in your meta post; where did Vulgard “SR one person, get town to vote them, etc”

@clonedcheese

Ruri’s accusing vulgard of:

Ruri’s accusation is different in nature to Vulgard’s actual case on her?

[clonedcheese]

@LiLi041

where did Vulgard “SR one person, get town to vote them, etc”

Uuuuuh nowhere

That mostly comes from me just remembering

Hold on let me go find it

@LiLi041

Ruri’s accusation is different in nature to Vulgard’s actual case on her?

Yes

[clonedcheese]

Wolfgard: pushes me entire day when nobody is

Wolfgard after people vote me:

@Vulgard

Might just go Calculus. I know, not a hot take, but Soul’s actually doing something

[LiLi041]

@clonedcheese

Wolfgard: pushes me entire day when nobody is

Wolfgard after people vote me:

but like

how does that compare with what you quoted about Ruri

Vulgard might be Wolfgard SRing Ruri… but no one’s voting Ruri so this comparison is just ???

[LiLi041]

@clonedcheese

Yes

I kinda dunno if that misrep indicates W for Ruri & V for Vulgard though

what would you read Vulgard as, if Ruri was town?

[clonedcheese]

@LiLi041

how does that compare with what you quoted about Ruri

Think weve kinda deviated
My pain point was no bs reads

In the first one i quotes you see the “frozen” argument which is almost never AI

@LiLi041

what would you read Vulgard as, if Ruri was town?

V regardless

I think vulgard is town so i think ruri is scum, not the other way

If vulgard was indeed scum then id say ruri is town but im not willing to explore that rn

[LiLi041]

@clonedcheese

Think weve kinda deviated
My pain point was no bs reads

How was the meta read bs

@clonedcheese

In the first one i quotes you see the “frozen” argument which is almost never AI

I mean… that’s not really BS tho

I’ve heard people use it before and stuff
like you don’t know what to do, have trouble getting the flow, freeze up

yeah that can be AI

I don’t think it’s really BS

[clonedcheese]

@LiLi041

How was the meta read bs

mmrrrr
we;re both misundertanding each other
im saying as a meta read that bs reads = wolfgard

@LiLi041

I’ve heard people use it before and stuff
like you don’t know what to do, have trouble getting the flow, freeze up

they only work for like
two people
otherwise it’s just a blanket term that sounds bad

[Psyx]

Vulgard & Riri:

Vulgard was initially pushing Ruri since he "found everyone else towny" (aside from Silviu?):

@Vulgard

Is Ruri literally 0-posting AI at all? Some people like Marl and Alice have been saying Ruri’s an ez read.

@Vulgard

Ruri/Silviu are in PoE because they are 0-posters

I really want to be able to resolve Ruri and Silviu in particular, because they could be any alignment right now and their very existence prevents me from building a good PoE.

@Vulgard

I’m reading the thread and my PoE isn’t really changing. I don’t really care who we vote between Ruri/Silviu/pigeon/Wazza. Preferably not LiLi, I think she’s become significantly townier over time.

@Vulgard

Ruri’s slot feels like a wolf via gamestate reasons.

@Vulgard

Thing is, Ruri’s never getting nightkilled at this rate, and given how many players I townread, I think she might be a wolf by gamestate.

@Marluxion

Your reasoning was trash and a complete excuse

There is no reason to vote a 0 poster on day one

None
We both know subs are townsided so actively trying to prevent the slot from having a chance to exist is pro-wolves.

@Vulgard

there is if you townread most everyone else
i once again present you thunal’s champs qualifier

@Marluxion

Even if you townread everyone else there are still 2 wolves in your townreads

@Vulgard

sure and i’ve been trying to solve them
i don’t think me pushing a 0 poster yesterday was problematic at all in that gamestate and i stand by that push

After Alice told him about her town meta, Vulg still sussed her because of her weak content

@Alice

I still think Phraze is a villager as someone who’s have had experience with her. Would rather chop Wazza or Silviu today as at least Cent’s doing something.

@Vulgard

would you mind going further in depth because i don’t want to accept ‘alice godread go brrrr’ as reasoning

@Alice

Alice godread go brr.

To be succint? It’s more that her wolfgame’s fairly weak and she’s extremely hesitant to give out reads due to struggling w/TMI when wolfing. I don’t think she approaches SoD like this as a wolf.

@Vulgard

okay then

@Ruri

Going off this list… I’d probably be looking at Wazza/LiL/Psyx ISOs.

@Ruri

The current POE in my mind for now is: Wazza (I read Zone’s ISO), LiL, Psyx, Centuries, and a far far FOS on Marl…

If I’m wrong on any, time will tell.

Still think Alice is V. Chloe and Alice were in a game I was in before, and the dynamic between them both seems different here. Pretty sure Chloe also has a good idea about Alice enough to read her.

I have played with Appel before, but am not confident reading. Still think they’re V though, something like their previous game.

honestly i see a lot of reads but i don’t see a lot of thinking behind them

those reads kinda just exist and they look to me like they were written for the sake of appearances rather than actual solving

if you’re saying that she outright doesn’t give reads as a wolf out of a fear of spewing people then yeah sure but

mm

@Vulgard

sure, ruri gave reads, but i don’t see a process, nor do i see inquisitiveness and attempts to tighten poe or anything of the sort

she entered the thread, gave a list of reads and takes with brief explanations (if any), and that was that

if she’s such a bad wolf that she can’t even give reads then i’d be inclined to believe your take, but as it is, i still think she’s probably a wolf

i don’t even care about her day 1 excuse, because i think the only world where that’s ai in any way is a world where ruri’s an old emilia-tier wolf. i’m treating that part as nai entirely, and reading her on her content alone, i don’t get the impression she’s actually trying to solve the game; only trying to look like she’s solving by giving a lot of takes. i don’t see a lot of investment/attachment to those takes and i also don’t see how she’s actually solving or progressing the game. it’s like she put up a billboard that says “hey i am solving i promise” but then left it there and walked away instead of adding content to it and/or placing more billboards for actual influence

this analogy’s a bit ham-fisted honestly but you probably get what i mean by this point

her poe’s also fairly broad

@Vulgard

yes i know alice thinks she’s v but i’m reading her posts and i really don’t see it
i described earlier why i believe this

@Vulgard

okay that is indeed worse than i expected
there are no real reads for the first 50 posts

@Vulgard

i honestly still don’t think she’s villagery but i see what you’re saying has merit now
at least she has reads in this game
a full readlist, even

@Vulgard

our major point of disagreement is ruri, though i’m trying to take the meta into account
i think the reads she gave are very barebones and they aren’t unfakeable by any stretch of the imagination
it’s only one step above “no reads at all” and people can improve their wolfgames

Ruri, on the other hand, had a pretty weak/wishy-washy opinion on Vulg, even after he was voting for her (altho when pressed for a stance GTH, said he was wolfy)

@Ruri

I just find it hard to take Vulgard seriously. Though, I do TR Alice, and they’re covering Vulgard. So, I’ll probably stick to my POE (Wazza/LiL/Psyx/Centuries/Marl).

@Ruri

Vulgard, I’m not sure of.

@Ruri

Vulgard also is not a bad player, so I’d be willing to give that the benefit of doubt until I can engage with them.

@Ruri

Vulgard also had somewhat minimal presence, other than to argue with Marl or me.

@Ruri

Vulgard, I’m not sure of.

@Ruri

Vulgard also is not a bad player, so I’d be willing to give that the benefit of doubt until I can engage with them.

@Ruri

Ruri:
ALICE: V
SILVIU: V
CHLOE: V
CENTURIES: W
WAZZA: W
VULGARD: W
MARLUXION: W
LILI: W
PSYX: W
APPELSIINI: V

@Ruri

Alice - Engaged with a lot of players.
Silviu - Somewhat discrediting Alice.
Chloe → Mistyx - I guess talked with Alice about cops.
Centuries - Also argued with Alice.
Zone_Q11 → Wazza - Argued with Alice.
Ruri - Probably polarized.
Vulgard - Argued with Marl/Phraze.
Marl - Argued with Vulgard/Silviu.
LiL - I think tried to talk to me?
Psyx - Wallposts.
Appelsiini - IDK.

This interaction was ?????? I don't get what they were talking about

@Ruri

I also don’t quite take Vulgard’s reads credibly since he subbed into my slot and disregarded all my reads.

@Vulgard

is it usual for your homesite to follow the reads of the player you subbed in for? because i’ve never heard of it before

@Vulgard

not taking my reads credibly is a valid thing to do

@Ruri

Basically, I don’t have much confidence in Vulgard as either alignment. Disregarding the reads of the one slot you can trust that is still alive, technically you, is ehh.

@Ruri

It’s hard to admit that you didn’t even trust the slot you subbed into before.

@Vulgard

i have never in my life replaced into a slot and been like “i should sheep the previous slot holder’s reads”

my opinions are my own, not theirs

@Ruri

Even if it solves the game?

@Vulgard

how do i even know if the earlier slot holder had good reads
also why are you trying to have this argument now

@Vulgard

i don’t think any of ruri’s posts so far have been villagery, so unless there’s a compelling meta reason to townread her, i’m not changing my vote

and even if there is a compelling meta reason to townread her there better be a good explanation attached to it because lolgodreads

@Ruri

My posts in all my games across various alignments have never been called villagery. Why would you expect it now?

@Vulgard

in that case we’re in a similar boat but that doesn’t change the fact i have decent reasons to townread most players not named ruri

@Ruri

Give all the reasons please. And FYI, I’m reading how you read me.

@Vulgard

already gave them
chloe/alice/marl and i guess centuries are the solving squad
psyx and appel are my n0 and n1 respectively so i’m not reading them otherwise
lili’s handling of zone yesterday was villagery

@Vulgard

still thinking ruri’s just a wolf by gamestate

@Vulgard

oh yeah idk if my vote counted because i don’t recall pinging

/vote Ruri @EliThePsycho

@Ruri

Well, you’re trying to argue meta when it clears me. I’m also not a bad villager when it counts.

@Vulgard

i’m not trying to argue meta i’m just saying that outside of the meta argument i don’t find you villagery whatsoever
i agreed earlier that meta looked good for you
it’s the best thing about your slot and i stand by it

why are you misinterpreting my push

@Ruri

Hmm, I see. Just calling out a flawed argument.

@Ruri

I’m like, playing to my old aggro style. RIP

@Vulgard

i’m seeing, like, no aggro from you
where did you get that idea

@Ruri

Barebones then. Not much thinking, more reactions.

Vulgard complaining about being wolfread with Ruri

@Vulgard

why are players wolfreading both me and ruri when realistically i’m the only player pushing on ruri and i’ve been doing so for two phases
if you think i’m bussing think again

@Silviu200530

I think people consider that you are pushing them because ya ain’t giving them a chance, and yes, you did express your feelings regarding them and I understand to some extent but I think they should be asked questions.

@Vulgard

i gave her almost 48 hours yesterday
and technically i’m even giving her chance after chance right now by not asking everyone to pile on her
she’s still not villagery
she should die (in the game)

I really can’t tell whether this could be w/w or not without knowing how good of a player Vulgard is, but if they are, I think they were using her townmeta as a shield so he could waste a few day phases trying to look “solve-y” but actually park his vote on her, while she just kept on making meh reads without having any worries of deep scrutiny (at least in the early half of the game). Seeing how Ruri was being really aware (to the point of flexing) about her townmeta, and even defending it when Vulgard put it into question, it could have been planned early on?

[Psyx]

@LiLi041 @clonedcheese

I’m so confused about your conversation

[clonedcheese]

so am i lol

[EliThePsycho]

~3 hours remain

[clonedcheese]

@Psyx

I really can’t tell whether this could be w/w or not without knowing how good of a player Vulgard is, but if they are, I think they were using her townmeta as a shield so he could waste a few day phases trying to look “solve-y” but actually park his vote on her

think most of this relies on wolf!gard

if vulgard is town, how does your read on ruri change if at all?

[Psyx]

Yeah, that post was mostly in response to @Alice saying she didn’t think Vulg & Ruri were w/w.

If Vulgard is town, it honestly doesn’t change my scumlean on Ruri at all. I find both individually wolfy.

[Psyx]

Don’t think I’ll still be awake for EOD, so lemme just sheep this:

@Alice

This is basically textbook W!Emilia defeatism, tbfh.

@Alice

Emilia hasn’t posted in like 36 hours.

I feel like Vulgard’s alignment is a foregone conclusion, tbfh.

@Marluxion

If you’re a wolf resigning to your fate I respect it