[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[CallMeIo]

So

You don’t want to respond because I’m right and you and Flameo are trying to get others to be more convinced you and Flameo are Town over me.

Cool.

[CallMeIo]

@Flameo

@an_gorta_pratai

Well, I just don’t have many strong SRs

Okay, but why is Sulit then a weak SR…?

Concerned!!!

Also can someone find me Flameo’s readslist.
Trying to find it but can’t.
I feel as if he did what Suilt did to him but vice versa and had CatLover from Town to Scum Instantly for ML bait.

[Vulgard]

The easiest solution to all our problems at this point is to yeet Wazza today, see what the nightkill is, and try to solve the game tomorrow without a slot that will never leave the PoE.

[Vulgard]

But that’s assuming y’all can leave your tunnels.

[Centuries]

Issue is we have

3 slots that never die :^)

I don’t think any sane scumteam member just Nks Intensify and PK if they are town

[sulit]

@Vulgard

The easiest solution to all our problems at this point is to yeet Wazza today,

what

[Centuries]

Odds are Vulgard is still alive Day 5

I’m a possible NK

[Centuries]

Our entire gameplan would have to rely on

Vulgard = Town which is pretty likely but yeahh

[CallMeIo]

@Vulgard

The easiest solution to all our problems at this point is to yeet Wazza today, see what the nightkill is, and try to solve the game tomorrow without a slot that will never leave the PoE.

Wazza is always Town here.
I’m surprised you can’t see that.

[Vulgard]

You guys are not gamers.

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

Wazza: ?
Centuries: “I dunno”
PK: Leafia
Vulgard: ?
sulit: ?
Io: FLAMEO
Leafia: sulit
Intensify: ?
Flameo: ?

Can you help me fill that in? “Primary yeet targets of each player.”

[Wazza]

I feel like PK is my lynch today tbh.

[Leafia]

@Centuries

Bro? Leafia? You were the main driving force behind that wagon?

I will admit that I was indeed the main driving force behind that wagon and I won’t try to defend and/or justify that since that would only make me look worse. I made a mistake there having tunnelvision like that.

@Flameo

@Leafia

Ele ppl has was wrong about that and Io isn’t scum. That’s a certainty in my mind and why are you towncoring Sulit so much without being willing to give Sulit a second look? You know as well as I do that me being correct here isn’t impossible.

Why don’t you mirror this logic on Io…?

I don’t need to.

@Flameo

@CallMeIo

Because Flameo is scum.

The only world where both Me and Vulgard are alive is in a world where Flameo is Scum.
Flameo from his PoV would only kill Cent, Derps or You.
Due to his recent EoD post.

Why couldn’t it be any other world? That’s quite an interesting burden of proof.

Because with any other possible pair, things just don’t add up. Why are you defending Sulit so much if it isn’t that world?

@Flameo

@Leafia

Why without referencing night kills? It isn’t like they aren’t important. They are.

@Leafia

Nice try. They’re always important when determining someone’s alignment.

They should not be the sole basis for a read. As I said before, I can explain any nightkill accusing any person alive through some kind of scenario. You have to ask yourself which scenario is more likely through that. This ties in to the article Elephas linked before and I showed you.

They aren’t the sole basis and you know it.

@Vulgard

@Leafia

I never act the way I’ve been acting D3 and today as scum. I never give up as scum and I was willing to get lynched D3vand that absolutely never comes from scum!me. Name one time I’ve ever given up as scum and accepted myself as a potential lynch.

Gorta used this defense too. If you’re using the same defense as him, and you’re town, then I pity you. That didn’t work for the last villager, what makes you think it’s going to work for you?

Because unlike him, it should be obvious that I’m not a wolf here. You’ve seen my scum games after all. When have I ever acted like I’ve acted this game in them?

@Vulgard

@Leafia

Gorta actually being town was the biggest thing that got me to change my mind. Callmelo was correct about that so it got me to thinking what if he’s right about the scumteam too?

Are you basing your reads on what Io thinks? Independent reads where?

You’re not even looking at my reads on Mole and Gorta. Those were reads that I made myself. One of them happened to be right and one of them happened to be wrong. Have you even been listening to what Io is saying?

@Vulgard

@CallMeIo

Leafia ALWAYS kills Vulgard here.

No? I townread her at EoD. There was no indication that I would flip my read completely.

It sounded to me like you were both flipfloppy on my role and partially scumreading me, not townreading me and I’d never have killed Derps N3. I was a strong townread for him. You would’ve probablty been my besat choice of kill, because you’d obviously be scumreading me today after EoD 3. Why would I kill someone who’s not only townreading me but would be defending me if they were alive if I was a wolf? Start using your head Vul. The wolves obviously want me to be the misyeet today. That’s why they killed Derps. Because they knew that he’d be helping Io to defend me and with him alive, Sulit would be under a lot more pressure. Please stgart using your brain Vul and think for a second.

@Vulgard

@CallMeIo

Think about this.

Flameo and Suilt are playing you.
You need to lynch the scum!

Thing is, your reasoning for yeeting both, especially Sulit, doesn’t hold up.

It holds up perfectly if you just think for a few seconds.

@Vulgard

Derps NK makes sense as a JOAT hunt. I literally have the only pelt in the game and everyone townreads me, yet I’m still alive. They don’t think I’m JOAT.

That pelt doesn’t just belong to you you know. I’m the one mainly responsible for Mole getting yeeted but I do admit that you helped a bit.

@Vulgard

@Flameo

Catlover’s slot is scummy for following reasons:

They were wagoning Ashe on day 1, who flipped town.
While this was happening Moleland, who flipped scum, was a big counterwagon.
They preemptively sniped a possible reversal on Mole, by starting a CFD on another town, Gorta (who was also one of the easiest targets as lowest poster)

Most of their analysis posts posture way too much and are more about showing contribution than getting people pushed out.

They faked a metaread on Ashe, which Sirderps called them out on.

They were one of the latest on Moleland’s wagon with an exaggerated ATEing reason. Like they could have set that up with Mole being intentionally annoying.

Elephas had them trending down in reads and they were killed that night.
SirDerpsAlot had them as scum since day 1 and they were killed last night.

I’m going to feel really bad if you’re a wolf writing this, but this case looks convincing.

What’s so convincing about it? He’s obviously throwing shade on Cat here.

@Vulgard

Io is still blatant town to me, leaning Centuries town. Sulit I’m flip-flopping on, but I stopped flip-flopping on Leafia and I think she’s just a wolf. She’s saying she’s not fighting her yeet, but… she is. She’s even leading a wagon right now.

Are ypou serious right here? There’s no world in which Io and I are of a different alignment and I wasn’t fighting it at all D3. I was even okay with getting yeeted for a part of that day which you so conveiniantly are overlooking. Of course I’m fighting my yeet right now because it’s likely that if I get yeeted now that town will just trust the obvious wolves and lose. In a world with me as wolf, Derps would still be alive and you’d be dead.

@Vulgard

Her response to gorta flipping town isn’t “re-evaluation,” it’s “tunnel the 2 people I said I would tunnel, Io is going to help me out, gorta’s flip is bad but it’s his fault he got yeeted.”

I don’t understand. It’s really emotional play. That’s why I’m thinking it could come from a villager. But I also think it’s terrible play. Ugh.

I’ll concede that it’s likely true that it’s terrible play or at least seems like it, but after what happened with Gorta, I no longer trust my own reads which has me terrified of being wrong. Even now I’m second guessing myself, which I admittedly did with both Mole and Gorta. I keep asking myself what if I’m wrong about everything?

@Vulgard

The wolf motivation here would be “get a misyeet,” but it makes her look like absolute garbage if sulit is V and I’m not sure if she’s ready for it?

That’s why I wou;ldn’t have pushed Gorta so hard if I was wolf. I care too much about how I look as a wolf to push on a villager that hard this early in the game, especially after a wolf got yeeted.

@Centuries

Kyo TR’d her for LAMISTing in Homestuck?

I was town in Homestuck as well.

@Centuries

She busses her teammate as scum?

That means from now on not bussing means she’s town

I wouldn’t be willing to say just because I don’t bus means I’m town honestly. I’d say bussing is NAI for me honestly. I’d have been just as likely to try and save a scumbuddy as I would be to bus them depending on the circumstances. I’d say if I hard defend someone that turned out to be a wolf, then it’s just as likely that I’m a wolf myself as it means that I’m town who was mistaken on them. For instance, if Io somehow became today’s yeet and flipped wolf, I’d be extremely suspicious of anyone that started defending me. Especially after what happened with Gorta.

[quote=“Vulgard, post:3842, topic:83078, full:true”]
Kinda surprised sulit isn’t evaluating Leafia’s push as something that comes from a wolf vs something that comes from a villager.

[quote=“sulit, post:3374, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

We should lynch Suilt though because they have the highest chance of being scum here.
[/quote]

why?

[quote=“sulit, post:3391, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

Remember if I die tonight everyone should have Suilt as your lock scum read
[/quote]

???

Can you answer why you scumread me??/

@sulit

i am lockscum because I only talked to mole once

cool

@sulit

time to look at d1 wagons again

yay

@sulit

Why am I scummy?

@sulit

idk what to think about the gorta wagon two people that shifted onto it were town

mreh

@sulit

why am I not town??

@sulit

Why do you think I am not town

@sulit

so

do you have any actual reason relating to anything I’ve done this game as to why I’m scum

@sulit

I shouldn’t have to lol, everyone’s pushing me for omg sulit has dropped in WiM!!!

No one has actually looked at my posts

theres nothing to defend against here other than

sulit scum!!!

@sulit

there is none, you have no reasoning

@sulit

more LAMIST

@sulit

still haven’t explained why I’m scum

@sulit

@Leafia

Sulit has been dropping in WiM a lot.
[/quote]

why??? how??? where???

@sulit

God you don’t even have a reason as to why I’m scum all it is

is owo Io

and Io doesn’t even have a valid reason either LOL

@sulit

hey leafia

instead of spending all your time LAMISTing
maybe you could you know

actually explain why im scum

@sulit

since you’re voting me and everything…

@sulit

ah yes

this is

great reasoning as to why i am a wolf

thanks leafia

@sulit

???

@sulit

cool

show me where

i lost wim

@sulit

@CallMeIo I want you, in a paragraph, to explain why I am lockscum without referencing any night kills that could have happening for numerous reasons.

@sulit

Cool. You haven’t provided any evidence of me being scum.

I don’t want to towncase myself against bullshit agenda reasoning

@sulit

Both the pieces of reasoning you’re pushing, without even looking at my posts, are wrong.

And I have just shown you how t hey are wrong.

@sulit

We do love a tunnel tho <3

Okay, I totally get why she’s using this line of defense. It’s a good line of defense. I agree with it. But I feel like she should be evaluating both Leafia and Io, because… I don’t really know what her read on the two is? Now that Io/Leafia are tunneling sulit. She mentioned “agenda,” so she should be scumreading Leafia at least, but… she’s not analyzing. Not sure what it means.

The quotes broke a bit here but my guess is that Sulit just doesn’t want to look bad when I flip town if I get yeeted since that would make people suspicious of them. t!Sulit I feel would be more likely to be scumreading Io and me.

@Centuries

i think sulit’s goal is to just disarm the push by trying to make leafia/io realize the push is meaningless

but then it doesnt like

idk i think sulit is town and i can understand the reaction

doesn’t feel optimal tbh

This is never the goal here.

@Vulgard

Occam’s Razor says “Leafia believes in her read, coincidentally Io has the same read, so she is tunneling because she wants a wolf yeet after gorta and is angry about misyeeting yesterday. Which is why she bashed gorta, because she considers the blame to be mostly on him.”

This is 100% the case.

@Centuries

We yeet Sulit and if she flips Villa, Leafia dies

I’m fine with this. That’s how confident I am. If I’ve been pushing on a second villager in a row for the second day in a row here, I deserve to die for my idiocy

@Vulgard

If your read on Flameo is correct, why did the wolves leave you alive?

In a world where Io is the N3 kill and Sulit and Flameo are the scumteam, I become obvious town due to Io’s flip and their chances of victory become basically nil. There’s no world where Io and I have different alignments herte and I think those two know that. Plus, they’re not stupid enough to believe that anyone would believe that I’d kill Io N3 and they obviously want to misyeet me.

@CallMeIo

@sulit

Flameo’s thing on CatLover makes sense, I’ll try and look through their ISO in a bit

LOL OF COURSE YOU’D SAY THAT.

Honestly, I can’t wait to see what Scum Chat is like post game.

Neither can I and I’m fine with a Flameo yeet too. /vote Flameo @Arete

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

Wazza: ?
Centuries: “I dunno”
PK: Leafia
Vulgard: ?
sulit: ?
Io: FLAMEO
Leafia: sulit
Intensify: ?
Flameo: ?

Wazza: PK
Centuries: “I dunno”
PK: Leafia
Vulgard: ?
sulit: ?
Io: FLAMEO
Leafia: sulit
Intensify: ?
Flameo: ?

Help.

[Vulgard]

I struggle to understand the case on Flameo, it looks like she’s getting voted for no reason.

[Vulgard]

Like, I want to sheep the sulit/Flameo push. I want that. But at the same time, I don’t understand wtf you are all saying about the slot.

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

Wazza: PK
Centuries: “I dunno”
PK: Leafia
Vulgard: ?
sulit: ?
Io: FLAMEO
Leafia: sulit
Intensify: ?
Flameo: ?

There’s also the fact that so far, every single person who answered my survey wants a different yeet. 0 organization. 0 towncore.
Wolves must love this.

[Vulgard]

@Leafia

What’s so convincing about it? He’s obviously throwing shade on Cat here.

Most of the things in that post are things I remember happening, which means they are facts. PK hasn’t been exactly impressive, either.

That’s why it’s convincing. It uses facts. It’s a logical case.

It doesn’t use self-meta or “THEY ALWAYS MAKE THIS KILL UWHAFIOAEFGNAEGFA.”

[Vulgard]

For the record, I don’t understand the “WOLVES ALWAYS KILL X” argument either. You don’t know shit about who the wolves would kill then. They can make lolwolf kills. They can JOAT hunt. They can do a lot of different stuff.

Stop thinking you know who’s getting nightkilled better than the wolves who are deciding the damn nightkill.

[Centuries]

Ok questions for fun re eval time

Are you SRing people for bad play or for scum play

@Vulgard

There’s also the fact that so far, every single person who answered my survey wants a different yeet. 0 organization. 0 towncore.

Actually I told you my number 1 was PK don’t know why you keep on putting it as I dunno :^)