[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[Leafia]

That sounds fair enough to me.

[an_gorta_pratai]

Today I have at least Flameo and Leafia to look at

[Wisp]

Honestly idk how to even argue the reads coming out, because they have no substance, and I’m being associated again

[Wisp]

Also poor flameo

[Wazza]

@Flameo

• Mole has an awful scumteam and has low motivation because of it.
• Mole was a planned bus, because of a bad day 1 start.
• Mole has irl circumstances that just made him underperform.

1. As scum, I’m usually more behind the scenes anyway so this is a bad point.
2. Sure, but…Wouldn’t his fellow scum you know, vote him if it was a bus?
3. Same thing is going on with me so it’s possible. Either way, Mole doesn’t exactly mega perform all the time, either.

@Flameo

I honestly feel like this is what Mole did in scumchat.

That’s like saying anyone Mole reads for the status of ‘If they were scum they’re bad scum’ makes that player scum.

Which is stupid, by the way and a horrible read to be exact.

@Flameo

They even pinged him at a point

Ah yes, probably because I was interacting in another game and that’s what we do to players who are interacting one place and not another.

@Flameo

/vote Wazza

Bad vote. You’re voting me because a scum player, who probably wanted to get a read out of me to find out if I was a good kill or not, pinged me in a thread where I was going to eventually get pinged anyway for ignoring the game. Your reasoning is stupid since you ignore the lack of context.

[Wazza]

@Leafia

On second thought, move Sulit down to W.

@Leafia

V

Flameo

W

Centuries
Wazza

WW

Gorta

PoE being

Gorta/Wazza/Centuries/Flameo

Would you include Sulit in your PoE now?

[Wisp]

Sulit hasn’t changed, the only way she is a wolf is if a strong wolf buddy is giving her posts to write

[Wazza]

Yeah no, I really doubt a scum would do that.

[Wisp]

My wolf game is weak, I’ve had people on MTGS give me pushes all the time

[Wisp]

If Sulit is a wolf, she has my props, it’s not even about consistency, which the fact that she is even still posting is a God send right now, but her posts have depth that she honestly can not write if she is a wolf
#fightme

[Wisp]

Speaking of bad reads, these POE reads coming from Melo

Rule of 3 is a fallacy

[Wazza]

I feel like Sulit can always still be wolf, just bigbraining this game. But to be fair there’s more than likely a wolf in everyone’s townreads, not to mention the fact that Mole was almost definitely not a bus as that would be a horrible idea.

[Wisp]

I wish Melo got shot… Why didn’t they get shot lol

[Flameo]

@Moleland

Leafia town this game

Going to find it ballsy if they open like this on their scummate.

@Moleland

Because meming Leafia is funny and usually outs their alignment easily

@Moleland

Sippy sip

Seems like I touched a nerve lmfao

Also think this interaction is a good look for Leafia.

[quote=“Moleland, post:264, topic:83078, full:true”]

@Moleland

@CallMeIo

(Even though I’m Town)
[/quote]

What does this even mean?

This comment is a ‘Duh’ moment. There’s no reason to add the ‘Even though I’m town’ part of this post. It’s not like you can be friendly neutral in this game.

/Vote callmelo

This was stilted as hell. Looks bad for Io, considering the low followup.

[quote=“CallMeIo, post:400, topic:83078, full:true”]

@Moleland

@Leafia

Moleland: This is one of two slots I’m most sure of. I hate his memes on me. Scumread
[/quote]

FTFY. At least be honest with your reads

Are they not being honest?

@Moleland

She’s voting me because I posted a meme lol

They also tagged up here somewhat.

@Moleland

@Wazza stop posting in Vldr and get over here since you are already at L - 4

Still going to say that this makes Wazza look scummy considering Mole’s low performance. Wazza has also notably dipped.

@Moleland

Ok, now you explained it, it makes sense I guess.

@Moleland

@Vulgard

I vividly remember that one slot in a game offsite where they posted in an underwhelming way, and very little too. However, they stepped it up in LyLo and were really openly nervous during every EoD, even when they were not being wagoned. It was pure. I didn’t see it then, but it really was pure.

Unwilling to jump on LHF easily for that reason, but I’m ready to flip if they don’t get better.

I get it now.

It just looked at first glance “Don’t vote the lhf - I’m voting the Lhf EOD” like a massive contradiction. Now your stance makes sense

This post reads to me as, don’t anger Vulgard, so makes Vulgard look better.

@Moleland

Why is Sullit underwhelming?

One of my few townreads tbh.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, note to self to read Sulit again, but I remember liking their posts…

@Moleland

Why don’t you get things done instead of being abusive?

@Moleland

I have 3 votes
You have 1.

I’m still playing and looking for clues and trying to make things happen. You should to

@Moleland

You haven’t said anything except tell people to fcuk off though

Again the annoyance with Wazza… (being on their scumteam?)

@Moleland

@an_gorta_pratai please post something by the time I awake tomorrow.

This feels like it could be both ways, similar explanation to Wazza or just pinging lowposters to act like they are contributing. I think the distinct annoyance with Wazza is what makes the difference in read for me here.

@Moleland

an_gorta_pratai - Lazy(But improving)town
I don’t think scum would allow Gorta to do so little in thread. However I do like most f their recent posts

Wazza - Unhelpfultown
Regrettably, I don’t think Wazza’s scumbuds would allow him to be such a dick to people. Annoyingly, he’s town imo

Again.

@Moleland

Leafia - Weaktown
Make her irrated or angry and she spills her scumminess. That’s what happened for me. I was happy playing ‘Scum Leafia’ Bingo. I was just waiting for her to self meta and say “Only town me would do X” or “If I was scum I would do.Y” and… Huh. They said it wasn’t AI? That was unexpected. Maturing scum game or their town game? Not sure tbh - but want to believe the latter. Should re eval their read on me because it is a mix of Salt and misunderstanding my opening post/s at the moment.

They have been pretty hyperfocused on Leafia and this read is the longest in this readlist. Don’t think I’m in a proper mental state to read into that, but the fact that this is the longest one feels interesting.

@Moleland

sulit - Townlean
I think her push on Wazza came from a genuine place, and was dripping with Town motivation.

Pretty hyperbolic, dripping with town motivation. Consistent with what they said earlier. I think not many scumread Sulit early, so this can be nothing out of the ordinary.

@Moleland

Flameo - Null
Their massive defence of Leafia

I’ll say that this misrepresentation (I could quote more of this, but people will just take it to be trying too hard to clear myself, so whatever) should clear me, because I really was not defending Leafia THAT fucking hard. They play up the probability of it meaning more than it should.

@Moleland

Wisp - Weakscum
I hate people who self meta for no reason. They, in my experience, are scum. Strike 1. Add onto this a lot of weak questions of people I pretty sure this is scum.

This feels like the fakest read ever. Looks very good for Wisp from this read.

@Moleland

…high horse? What the actual duck

Oh, CatLover had good interactions with Mole here, because CatLover does not strike me as the kind of player that will stir up shit with fellow scummates.

@Moleland

I already stated that I’m sure Wisp is scum with that self reference to meta for no reason and just generally asking weak questions.

@Moleland

and just generally asking weak questions.

This feels like such a tacked on reason. This read is fake. Fakeeeee!

@Moleland

How does this resolve yesterday’s wagons?

Also @CallMeIo can you… Not do what ever it id you are doing? It’s too early for me to understand you and get through the mental gymnastics to understand.

Hmmmm, I wonder if they would say this to a fellow scummate. I hate it, but it makes me trend Io up ever so slightly.

@Moleland

This is my thinking for the two main wagons yesterday

@Arete

|ash4fun|Elephas, Sulit, an_gorta_pratai, Flameo|4/8|

|an_gorta_pratai|ash4fun, CatLover, Wiisp|

Hmm, at least this one is consistent (oh quote doesn’t show colours apparenlty)

@Moleland

I’d like to vote Wisp but there doesn’t seem to be any appetite for that so I’m trying to think which of the other 3 could be scum

“My fake reasons weren’t enough to get any traction going” Yea, Wiisp looks pretty good through this ISO.

@Moleland

In fact I’m going to /Vote Vul to stop him covering his fellow wolves

@Moleland

You are towncoring wolves. I believe it to be premeditated because you are a wolf.

This is like equally bad/fake/ugh, clears Vulgard.

@Moleland

Well played. That made me laugh.

If we had a NK in this set up, arguements he could be scum might have traction. However, no way he takes a stupid Eod stand as scum that just invites people to vote him, nor does be so inactive day 1 if he has people to ping him

@Flameo

This is a poor read that just justifies TWTBAW. Players pinged him in thread just the same. Why would that necessarily have a different effect than pinging in scumchat…?

@Moleland

Because Scum can do it endlessly without looking weird.

Still feels like a possible world to be in.

@Moleland

Leading question.

Whatever this exchange was. I disliked how frustrated Catlover got over this, but Mole was scumreading Cat prior, so it’s not toooo out of the ordinary.

@Wisp

Lo is not obvious town, his play here is actually more likely to come from a wolf, but the fact that he is probably the joat is something I have to consider

@Moleland

Well, I’ve consulted my Oracle

And he said Lo is never a wolf

@Moleland

There’s no way they are a wolf. Like are you for real? No one interacts with the thread like they do as scum.

Wait… hmmm? Weren’t they scumreading Io. They did a complete 180 with no progression.

@Leafia

That I’m great at reading townies. Also, I don’t think Derps ever has his brain turned on while playing FM games.

@Moleland

That’s rude af. You should apologise.

Yea, feel even more comfortable with Leafia town.

[Wazza]

hey bud, stop repeating your points against me and respond to my post instead. Just because he pings players doesn’t make them scum.

@an_gorta_pratai oMg LoOK, We NeEd tO cONTrIButE

Don’t be stupid, there’s something called a scumchat he can do it in instead of associating with us.

[Flameo]

@Wazza

As scum, I’m usually more behind the scenes anyway so this is a bad point.

… I don’t understand what would make this a bad point then…?

@Wazza

Sure, but…Wouldn’t his fellow scum you know, vote him if it was a bus?

I am saying this is less likely, precisely because I am townreading main players on their wagon.

@Wazza

That’s like saying anyone Mole reads for the status of ‘ If they were scum they’re bad scum’ makes that player scum.

Which is stupid, by the way and a horrible read to be exact.

Mole showed annoyance with you on two separate occasions. I think it’s warranted.

@Wazza

Bad vote. You’re voting me because a scum player, who probably wanted to get a read out of me to find out if I was a good kill or not, pinged me in a thread where I was going to eventually get pinged anyway for ignoring the game. Your reasoning is stupid since you ignore the lack of context.

I am not just voting you for this point. You have also been absent lately. I am happy you are here now.

[Flameo]

@Wazza

hey bud, stop repeating your points against me and respond to my post instead. Just because he pings players doesn’t make them scum.

@an_gorta_pratai oMg LoOK, We NeEd tO cONTrIButE

Don’t be stupid, there’s something called a scumchat he can do it in instead of associating with us.

What’s your explanation for Mole being underwhelming?

[Leafia]

@an_gorta_pratai

I will be on more later, as I am very tired

NAI opener here.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Flameo

I don’t understand why Mole is somewhat intentionally trying to antagonize Leafia.

Leafia deserves every bit of suspicious that goes her way. Don’t call her lockscum, but also don’t call her locktown

@Wisp

Do I take katze’s post at face value?

I think yes

Nope, you do not take Katze posts at face value.

@Wisp

Katze is open wolfing

Can you explain this tinfoil?

@CatLover

Vulgard seems very over-eager. I want to see if he keeps this level of high WiM later on and what he does with it. He seems super polarizing right now, kind of a “you love him, or you hate him” type guy. I am honestly not sure where most of these reads come from, I see a lot of unsubstantiated posts just saying that he is a mafia or he is a town with no reasoning.

I want to tinfoil that Vul is a wolf who has improved, but that’s just tinfoil. In FoL 29 Vul somehow survived to d3 as the starting CL and only got WiM back at that point then convinced everyone that he was town. It’s just a tinfoil though, but he did say postgame that he needs to work on his early game

@Vulgard

It’s easy as hell to read me because my wolfgame hasn’t had enough time to be trained and refined in comparison to my towngame.

Do we know if Vul is a quick learner in that aspect?

@Vulgard

Would’ve preferred to rand wolf again, but well.

We can’t all be Leafia and Apprentice

@Elephas

I am rather unsure where to place my vote currently.

I do believe that applying pressure to the zero-poster may be in order at this rate.

Their last post was twenty-three hours ago.
Perhaps they need a little persuading.

/vote gorta

You are voting a no-poster over any of your other scum reads? I get pressure, but I don’t fold to pressure and will be active when I can be/not tired

@Flameo

I will note that all of these are townreads, which is mildly suspicious. It’d be more natural if you had at least one scumread in here.

I didn’t see where that list as townreads. Am I missing something?

@Leafia

Why do I have a feeling that Gorta will be getting replaced out for inactivity?

That will never happen, unless stuff comes up

Not sure whether this is a good or bad look for Gorta honestly. Slightly leaning towards it being a good look though.

@an_gorta_pratai

I regret not reading stuff sooner. 700-800 posts is hell to read through

Agreed. It is.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Elephas

This catch-up post from you is extremely underwhelming, and I expect you to step it up by the end of this day, or you will absolutely be a lynch candidate.

I see you haven’t played games with me. I usually only quote things that ping me

@Elephas

These are the closest things to reads that you have, and they are hedgy. I do not like this.

Leafia is someone I don’t trust and I just got through with a scum!Vul game in which Vul said he had to change his early game up, so my tinfoil isn’t baseless.

@Centuries

in his one scumgame ive seen he actually posted stuff and tried to solve

I try to solve as town roles as well

@Wisp

Light Scum Lean

Elephas (decided to move them up, because I wanna let them do their thing)
an_gorta_pratai

explain yourself?

Hmmm, a villagery feel to them here. Starting to second guess my thoughts on them being scum honestly.

@an_gorta_pratai

I just need to fill my 20 post quota and such, but yeah how do you feel about the players that don’t get as much attention?

This has a slightly wolfy feel to me honestly. Saying that you’re posting only to fill up a 20 post quota? That doesn’t seem like the kind of thing a villager would say.

@an_gorta_pratai

I need to, but I don’t want to fill it with posts that say “hey, I posted!”. I should probably look at mole at least

This however does feel slightly better.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Katze Ash’s posts have this really odd feeling to them. I can’t quite put it into words, but they feel odd. I can’t say if it’s the scummy type of odd, but that’s possibly because I haven’t played many games with them. Some of it just kind of seems performative.

Here’s his read on Ash who flipped town at the end of the day where he put it out. It does seem genuine though.

@an_gorta_pratai

Another thing, we need to decide on a single lynch and have more votes there because if we don’t this happens

@Arete

In cases where two or more players are tied at the end of the day, the Mafia will decide which player is executed. They have up to half an hour to make this decision (for angleshooting purposes, the full half hour will always be used). They may submit preferences in advance, and if they do not submit a timely choice it will always be assumed that they wish to save a member of the Mafia if that member is put to rand with a member of the Town.

We do not give this to scum We are either going mole or ash today and that’s final unless there is an CFD later, but everyone on each wagon you need to convince each other why said vote is the best because ties are not acceptable here

I agree with Gorta that giving the scum the chance to decide who getas lynched by having equal votes is a very bad idea, but I find him pointing it out to be NAI honestly.

@an_gorta_pratai

In regards to Moleland: I think mole is probably town. The paranoia of Leafia seems valid, Mole is pinging inactives for contribution, and their progression on slots like leafia seems fine. I just think this will flip town, but then again I haven’t seen too many Moleland scum games

I think this is a fair enough assessment.

@an_gorta_pratai

In terms of todays execution we always go ash. I don’t know why in the hell y’all are voting Mole, but I think Mole is town. I wouldn’t lock that in, but we don’t get rid of Mole today

Here he goes from not being sure about Ash’s alignment but thinking they could possibly be scum to saying that Ash should always be the day’s lynch. His progression on Ash’s slot is godawful, and even worse when you consider the fact that Mole was scum and Ash was town. Literally three posts of his ago he wasn’t sure if Ash was town or scum. This sort of progression literally never comes from a villager. I can only assume that he wanted Ash to be the D1 mislynch at this point. You don’t go from saying that someone could possibly be a wolf to saying they should absolutely be the day’s lynch as a villager. He’s either an obvious wolf here or an absolutely terrible townie.

@an_gorta_pratai

I want to know why you think Ash is town. I mean I think it’s possible, like I said I don’t know what kind of odd it, but if you gave me a choice between mole and ash it would always be ash. If you can tell us why you think Ash is town and who you think we should execute that would be nice. Calling it a t/t wagon is great and all, but if you don’t provide alternatives it will always go between those two

This is literally his next post after saying that Ash should be the lynch for the day. Villagers don’t want to yeet people they think have a possibility of being town without even considering other possibilities.

@an_gorta_pratai

Could we have a list of your most confident town to most confident scum read?

Given how he was to this point, this seems like coaching to me. I might be wrong about that, but I don’t think I am.

@an_gorta_pratai

If we aren’t CFD’ing I am not voting because I will not vote my top town read

Refusing to vote isn’t a good look for Gorta. He wasn’t even trying to push Ash any more. Probvably because he no longer believed he could get Ash lynched.

@an_gorta_pratai

I will also not give scum the chance to pick between the wagons

This is a BS reason for not voting. By not voting, you’re giving scum exactly what they want.

@an_gorta_pratai

@CatLover

So you are refusing to vote because your top town read is one of 3 large wagons, but if you do vote, mafia can choose the wagons? How does this make sense, at all ?

if I do try and save my top townread it likely gets balanced because of this

This isn’t true and I think Gorta knows it.

@an_gorta_pratai

Mole and also I think this wagon is better /vote ash

Here he finally votes for a townie.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Moleland

I’ve got an idea I’ve seen elsewhere. Everyone pretends they are a Joat and out their night result - therefore the actual joat can out there’s without scum being able to tell that easily.

Let’s not do that because it makes it easier to spot fake JOATs

@Elephas

I believe the idea that gorta could have been TMI’ing both Mole and Ash as town is a true possibility, as he refused to get on a train until pushed from many angles by many people. Basically - until he had to get on a train.

If I was mafia I would have let Mole die because the mafia doesn’t care if a towny dies

@Elephas

I find it interesting that gorta was not very present in the thread until he was voted, and again at the end of the day, which is usually a sign that a player is a wolf. Paying attention to when a player is present in thread is a valuable asset.

Yeah, I was reading the thread and fell asleep in the process

It is a good look that he didn’t agree with Mole about the JOAT thing. Although his second statement doesn’t hold water considering Mole’s flip.

@an_gorta_pratai

@Leafia

As for Gorta, he projected an aura of not caring EoD1, which is not something that I think a villager would project.

All due to how reluctant he was to vote.

I was defending someone I think is town, which is why I was reluctant to vote (it goes to the mafia to choose who dies if the lynch balances)

@Elephas

Thats untrue. I am on mobile and cannot properly quote EoD, but it looked like you were attempting to avoid being on any wagons, so you don’t look bad when they flip town. You didn’t want a Mole wagon but you didnt actively do anything to stop it.

I did vote Ash when the wagon became an option and I wasn’t just making a tie with the votes

@Leafia

If Mole happens to be townie, this reeks of TMI that Mole is town.

I have gut reads and when I get those reads they are unexplainable reads that are often times correct. I think it’s intuition, but I got strong town pings from Mole

@Centuries

he makes no effort to read ash

I tried to, but I don’t know how Ash plays

@Centuries

this kinda pinged me looking back idk doesnt feel very natural

Katze and Vulgard were the only ones online at that time, so yeah

Gorta wasn’t hard defending Mole at this point, although he was defending him slightly. I feel that a villager would’ve tried harder to save someone that they thought was town though.

@an_gorta_pratai

Mate, I was hard defending Mole before I went to sleep.

Claims to be hard defemnding Mole at EoD1

Also Gorta

@an_gorta_pratai

How can I have TMI and not defend anyone at the EoD?

I’m reading this as him claiming to not have been defending anyone at EoD1. Might be misreading this though.

@an_gorta_pratai

Does saying something like “mole will not be todays lynch” and then “I won’t vote my town read” when they were the top wagon and voting on any other would tie wagons (leaving it in the hands of the mafia) = not defending anyone?

Again claims to be hard defending Mole.

@an_gorta_pratai

Honestly, I am kind of tinfoiling Vul as a wolf who has improved from his last game

Here he OMGUSs Vulgard for reading Mole as a wolf. Very scummy behavior if you ask me.

@an_gorta_pratai

@sulit

And I still like their approach to solving Leafia via trying to make them angry, it felt town motivated

That’s one of the reasons I think Mole is town. Scum!mole could easily bury Leafia, but Mole shifted a sr into a tr on Leafia. The only possible way Mole is a wolf off of that is if Leafia is also a wolf doing some 4d scum theatrics

This is a BS reason because that’s never the only possibility here.

I think this is enough for now to help people understand why I hate Gorta’s slot and think he’s a wolf. Hopefully this ISO helps people see where I’m coming from here. Gorta started out good, but his progression on Ash’s slot was utterly terrible among other things.

[Flameo]

@Wazza

Gorta’s inactivity isn’t really a scumtell. What is a scumtell however is finding out if he’s getting annoyed about certain reads on him.

He felt pretty annoyed about my read on him. Is this some kind of meta on him?

[Wazza]

@Flameo

… I don’t understand what would make this a bad point then…?

Because then I wouldn’t be ‘unproductive’

@Flameo

I am saying this is less likely, precisely because I am townreading main players on their wagon.

Yeah sure, I can agree with that.

@Flameo

Mole showed annoyance with you on two separate occasions. I think it’s warranted.

I feel insulted by this but I’m used to it at this point. I suppose you’re using a point since it was the same thing going on with Telephone/Replay (Me)?

@Flameo

I am not just voting you for this point. You have also been absent lately. I am happy you are here now.

I was absent because I was doing a little thing called sleeping. My sleep schedule is messed up like mad and I’ve stated that this game.

@Flameo

What’s your explanation for Mole being underwhelming?

What do you mean? I never said anything about ‘underwhelming’ or whatnot.

@Flameo

He felt pretty annoyed about my read on him. Is this some kind of meta on him?

We were discussing scumtells between players in a VC like two days ago. That was one of the main points to come up.