[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[Arete]

You cannot vote the host

From now on I’m processing votes on invalid targets as unvotes

[Leafia]

Pretty sure that our goddess, the Great Arete, is a cat Wazza.

[Wisp]

micro reads ftw
/vote Gorta
I know what my reads are, but that sequence of posts was not townie

[Arete]

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
an_gorta_pratai	Leafia, Wiisp	2/6
Flameo	CallMeIo, SirDerpsAlot	2/6
CallMeIo	Flameo	1/6
Leafia	Wazza	1/6

[Wazza]

Gotcha.

/vote Leafia again

[Leafia]

@Wisp

I know what my reads are, but that sequence of posts was not townie

Admittedly, it’s true that it wasn’t townie, but neither is voting for a dead townie like you did. Just like you voting for Ele, that sequence of posts was because I got confused about how I was reading Wazza based on what he said since not only is he barely here, but I’ve also been focusing on other slots lately. I think he took me saying that he could possibly be town as me townreading him, so his misunderstanding on that point was what started this whole thing. I do think I would’ve handled that differently as a wolf though.

[Wisp]

that is nai, my brain is weird sometimes, if anything that looks better for me cause I keep forgetting who died lol

I am tired of all these, “I would of handled this differently if I was a wolf”
it doesnt mean much of anything to me

[Leafia]

Same with me and that sequence of posts and fair enough.

[Leafia]

Although due to that interaction, I think I’m ready to put you into my towncore Wiisp and Wazza seems a bit townier after that too, so he’s become the slightest of townleans for me I think. I’m tinfoiling that a wolf would’ve capitalized on my error a lot more than he did and tried pushing me way harder, especially after how Mole antagonized me early on. He’s at the very edge of my PoE right now.

[Leafia]

Good night too everyone.

[an_gorta_pratai]

@Leafia

Not necessarily. Wolves don’t always ppl ush wolves. Sometimes they defend them.

I am not the type do defend my wolf buddies when I am scum

@Wisp

I know what my reads are, but that sequence of posts was not townie

What sequence of posts?

[EliThePsycho]

done with d1
won’t have time to finish d2 before my internet shuts off
current reads of players that stick out in my mind:
gorta: literally had 3 posts or something, which is a bad thing. otherwise, null.
lefia: TL, acting good
if i remember any others in the limited time i have to think i will post them
however my memory is not acting good, so if i don’t post anymore do not be suprised

[CallMeIo]

What do you remember about Elephas? Anything that stands out?
What’s your read on them?

[CallMeIo]

@EliThePsycho

[CallMeIo]

@CatLover

I mean, yes, I think you have treated her in a generally negative way, and saying things like you “hate people who self meta”. I think you are at least slightly full of yourself and i’m not afraid to say that.

That being said, I don’t want this to devolve into personal attacks, and judging by your tone and current playstyle your alignment should become fairly clear by day 3 after lookin at your convictions. That is all I wish to say about your slot right now.

I’m going to take a deep dive of ash4fun’s responses and general tone, I feel like I might be on to something.

@CatLover

You have a very antagonistic play style. A lot of what you say is just stirring up conflict (which you have admitted is part of your way of reading) but it often comes off as a little mean.

This isn’t meant to lambast you in any way, I just think that your playstyle makes it difficult for me to read you, until you have learned you are right/wrong on something.

Speaking of that, I would probably ask you to case someone and choose them as a wagon to push. Be careful and re-evaluate, obviously, but I want you to actively try to push a wagon with some degree of confidence. The way you handle that is probably the way I will read you the easiest.

Here’s some posts regarding Mole.

@CatLover

I mean, it was only 250 posts in. It is a meta read so I can’t say I love it, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him reversing an early read because he saw a post or series of posts from you that he found villagery. Just because those happened to be posts questioning the wolf read doesn’t make that more valid.

I might be giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I can see him doing this as town.

But I find my thoughts on this to be unimportant. I want you to elaborate a little more on what you were thinking in this instance.

Why exactly did you think it was more likely to be from mafia, and how do your posts reflect you handling the situation with that mindset. I believe you are capable of casing yourself and I want you to run me through exactly what you were thinking in that instance.

Here’s a thought.
What if CatLover is Chloe and they killed Katze N1 because Katze knows their scum meta.

@CatLover

If katze is trying to save mole, then it is not TMI, no.

@CatLover

At the End of the Day, katze’s biggest suspicions were on an_gorta (and they would have ended on that vote, if it were not for the fear of the rand.

They also had a fairly strong mafia read on CallMeIo.

The last thing I saw of much worth is some deep-wolf suspicion on vulgard.

I’ll take a look at their over-all reads list and then start focusing on the day ahead of us!

Post about Mole. There’s a heck ton of posts about Katze in this ISO.

@CatLover

Oh, JOAT cover. I don’t know if I have seen that before, but it makes sense in this set-up.

@CatLover

Going to ISO moleland after I go grab a snack. If anyone has any questions for me (specifically about the Wazza case, but i’ll also accept any questions in general) for me when I get back, please let me know!

@CatLover

Moleland Case:

I have already talked about why I disagree with moleland’s additude. I don’t think he’s been very nice in general but i’m not going to focus on that fact as of right now. What I want to focus on is his behavior with this in mind, particularly at the end of the day.

I’ll out what I thought was the best way to read moleland (with flips). It all depends on convictions and actions afterwards. A player like him, as town, will think they are right, and will react to being right/wrong after learning if they were with either supreme self confidence and ego, if right, or total deflation and/or. deflecting blame, respectively. I’ve dealt with this kind of thing a lot and that’s how I read generally big-headded antagonistic players. For the record, I’m writing this before looking at a single post of his, and this rule of thumb will be how I approach this case in general.

---

And reading his EoD I see… no conviction. At all. He was around mere minutes before EoD and he didn’t seem to care at all about that wagons. He was on a vanity wagon for christ’s sake, and instead of reacting at all to what happened at EoD, he instead just went ahead with his JOAT cover plan and didn’t react at all to wagons.

With someone who so spitefully antagonizes someone like leafia, I do not understand why he didn’t seem to care about the end of day wagons. Especially when he himself was one of them near the end of the day.

@Moleland

This is my thinking for the two main wagons yesterday

@Arete

|ash4fun|Elephas, Sulit, an_gorta_pratai, Flameo|4/8|

|an_gorta_pratai|ash4fun, CatLover, Wiisp|

this is the extent of his talking about the end of the day. It’s just… not there. If he townreads both wagons (and himself, obviously) why did he make no effort to change the EoD gamestate! Right now, it feels like he is a mole hiding underground, afraid of sticking his nose out there at all!

He feels super passive after the first few posts. I do not like it at all. This ISO lacks any conviction or any sort of desire to solve. It just feels like he’s along for the ride and after reading this I think I want to boot him off.

Conclusion:

I would expect a player like him, if town, to have convictions behind his pushes and supreme confidence come EoD. Here, his posts feel super passive and afraid to stick his neck out there. Probably my top mafia candidate at the moment!

@CatLover

Thoughts after reading Moleland’s posts:

I… I still think he lacks conviction in all honesty! Originally, his Wiisp push looked okay, but under the surface, a lot of it looks like he’s just throwing things at a wall and sees what sticks!

He spends a lot of posts calling Wiisp an “obvious wolf”, but is still just entirely pre-flipping.

@Moleland

Also has spent most of the day filling the thread with hating lo who is obvious town here.

@Moleland

Targetting LHF

in what is his big Wiisp wall, his ultimate case, there is no reasoning that presents anything AI. I posted the above preflips, here are the other reasons.

@Moleland

@Wisp

this has nothing to do with playstyle, his posts suck

Dictionary definition of an OMGUS read on me

@Moleland

@Wisp

Who wants to join the anti-Lo fan club?

This is a stupid question - Scum trying to look casual?

He doesn’t explain how Wiisp’s read is OMGUS, nor why OMGUS is wolfy! And then he just says that Wiisp’s question is “stupid” (his words, not mine, sorry), and that Wiisp was scum trying to look casual. But he does not answer why the post is silly, or why he it means he is Scum trying to look casual!

I see no inner fire or desire behind it. He’s just throwing buzzwords at Wiisp, but his actual points are devoid of logical reasoning or thought process. For most tunnels from townies, you can almost always see the reason. It might be really silly, sure, but there is always an identifiable reason. Here, there is no reasons why he thinks Wiisp is scum. This wall is a cluttered mess of super shallow reasoning, and I think he just wanted to Push Wiisp or make Wiisp look bad (from the start) and not actually push Wiisp for specific reasons.

Yeah I’ll stop it here.

They seem to talk most with Katze and Mole.
Sometimes I see them talking with Derps.

[CallMeIo]

@CatLover

I’m also not changing my vote. Mole has purposefully dodged my line of questioning by attacking my honesty, and has just not shown any care this EoD!

I think Flameo is likely town and that Mole is a good vote.

Also Bolded

[CallMeIo]

If I have time later I think I’ll take a dive into Mole’s ISO and see what I find.
Preferably Day 1.

[Arete]

Don’t speculate about alts

[SirDerpsAlot]

Arete is a Marshal alt

[DatBird]

I will break ur kneecaps if u speculate on an alt again.