[VFM] JoaT^2 - (6/15) - 😹 Pirates (Town) Win!

[Centuries]

so if you think io is obvs town

and im town

intensify you’re BOXED IN

[Vulgard]

Centuries' eyes only

What if I said that I had a gamer reason to consider Io town beyond what I’ve already said?

[Centuries]

your gamer vocab isn’t really consistant

if it’s linear

then its probably io joat

but i dont really think

I think it’s on the wagon perhaps

[Centuries]

it=joat

[Intensify]

Oh hey…
Sigh
Just… kill me…
I’ve really screwed up as town this time, I’d rather just die than take anymore suffering from the stupid things I’ve done yesterday

/vote Intensify

After I flip town, try to go get second top suspect alright?

[sulit]

hellur

[sulit]

I p much agree with

Intensify being the lynch

yeet

[sulit]

[insert self vote and ATE meme here]

[Centuries]

you get yeeted anyway because you have to be DEAD by tomorrow otherwise big trouble

/vote Intensify

[Arete]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
Intensify	Vulgard, Intensify, Centuries	3/4

[Intensify]

Oh well…

[Centuries]

give reads first

/unvote

[Centuries]

I just wanna see for precedent

[Intensify]

I want you to kill me.
I have no reads, I’ve basically lost all hope in myself after yesterday

[Arete]

Vote Count

Vote Target	Voted by	Votes
Intensify	Vulgard, Intensify	2/4

[Centuries]

maybe it’s vulgard deepwolfing and i have paranoia o_O

r u scum intensify o_O

[Intensify]

No, but after yesterday, I wish I was scum since I feel really dumb hard defending someone who I thought was Joat

[Centuries]

why are you refusing to give reads o_O

[Vulgard]

@CatLover

Myself (Obviously!)
Sulit
Vulgard

Really pushes sulit town, all the time. Yeah, looks like sulit town alright.

Kinda interesting how CatLover flat out ignores Wisp. And I mean completely.

[quote=“CatLover, post:1898, topic:83078, full:true”]
Casing on Wazza:

The first half of this posting is something that I don’t think is alignment indicative. This general deflated “I hate this game, just kill me already” can and has come from different alignments. Trying to read in to those types of posts just leads to cherrypicking quotes to fit what you think, and confirmation bias. I’ll admit I did try to read in to it heavily earlier but at this point I think the best way to handle his posts about hating that he randed VT is just to ignore them or at the very least admit there’s not much to be gleaned from them, and just focus on the posts of his I can find that don’t relate to that.

[quote=“Wazza, post:734, topic:83078”]

@sulit

I haven’t really seen the above yet and the fact he used the same argument he did as Replay, “I don’t want to post reads till asked because my reads are shit,”
[/quote]

Because this is a genuine argument. I play as scum the way I play as Town.

One thing I’ve found in general is, regardless of the alignment of the person posting this, they will usually believe it is true. Not that it is- but he will usually think he has no differences at all between his Town and Mafia games. I have no interest in looking at his past games, so I do not care if there are tonal differences between the two, but this mindset may be important later.

He approached the wall that the above quoted post is in in a way that I have struggled to interpret but I have come to the conclusion that Wazza and Sulit is t/w. I’ve mulled over this wall for about 10-15 minutes and this is the conclusion i’ve come.

Summary

@Wazza

Honestly I feel like she is Town but she’s spiting for the Replay/Venus thing back in that game.

@sulit

As town Wazza is way more aggressive and active and he is COMFORTABLE IN THE THREAD.

This is a fair point, I’ll give you that. But I can counter it based on the fact that I’m Vanilla Town.

@sulit

Wazza as town is pretty obvious in my opinion because it’s pretty easy to see when he actually believes in his reads or just chill I’m the thread tbh.

I gave up believing in my reads after FoL 29 and the alt game, even if I was Mafia. Posting my reads just makes everyone suspects me so I completely give up on reads at this point. They’re stupid and when I try give my opinions I’m instantly suspected for it.

@sulit

I haven’t really seen the above yet and the fact he used the same argument he did as Replay, “I don’t want to post reads till asked because my reads are shit,”

Because this is a genuine argument. I play as scum the way I play as Town.

@sulit

It’s also sucky you’re using the anon game to meta read me as I purposely tried to play different and tried out different methods to read people. I specifically played on an alt because I don’t want to be held to that standard of play in normal games.

I think I can use it to state that you’re using a salt read.

@sulit

Earlier in the game he seemed kinda jumpy and posts didn’t lead much if anywhere

Explain?

@sulit

Later all he did was argue with me tbh. He forgot about the game even though he’d posted earlier

Because you were pushing me so I returned the favour.

@sulit

Also said he read the thread but no reads except me scum for pushing him ):

I have more reads, but once again, everyone fucking scumreads me for my opinions so I’m not posting them.

Sorry about the late response, I took a ‘nap’ and woke up 9 hours and a half later.

I have a lot of mixed feelings from this wall, but I have ascertained a few things from it that I believe to be telling. I think that, in this wall, he is approaching this wall from the mindset that sulit is town. He says so at the beginning and the way his reads and posts are formulated makes me think that he had genuinely approached this from the mindset that sulit is town. This could mean a few worlds (Wazza wolf and is TMIing sulit town, Wazza town and is townreading sulit), but it distinctly does not feel like it’s from somebody who has TMI on sulit being mafia. Therefore I think that it is not w/w.

I can go into further detail on the posts that made me specifically think he does not have TMI on wolf!sulit, but to make it more concise i’m just putting the general reasoning here.

He ended up voting and pushing CallMeIo later (I know he said he was not going to make reads, but I am not going to fault him for going back on that nor do I think it’s inherently wolfy as I can see the mindset of wanted to play the game as town even if you said earlier you weren’t)

I like how he stands his ground when CallMeIo pushed him, specifically the way he attacked him for his perceived poor arguments. There was focused aggression when he was drilling Io that made me feel like this was more than pushing Io for more than just pushing him. Posts like these:

Summary

@Wazza

Io, you haven’t explained why the wagon looks unpure.

[quote=“Wazza, post:1163, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

You don’t even acknowledge my reasoning
[/quote]

I acknowledge your lack of reasoning, if that’s what you want me to say.

[quote=“Wazza, post:1163, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

Seems to me like you just desperately wanted me to changed my mind about Ash.
[/quote]

Desperately? I don’t even scumread Ash, nor care about his wagon. I was bringing up a point and playing Devil’s Advocate.

@Wazza

Yeah I want you voted since 5 times you’ve been asked to explain why the Ash wagon is unpure and 5 times you have ignored the question.

@Wazza

I can’t even see this argument coming from Town. Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense, not to mention you constantly ignored the people asking about your point, and then when asked about it, you change your complete mind on it and state something completely unrelated and something that wouldn’t matter with it. It seems more like a scum saving a fellow scum, but shrug.

[quote=“Wazza, post:1182, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

Since when is Mole inactive?
[/quote]

…When did I state Mole was inactive? I was responding to Centuries who stated you were pushing on inactives.

[quote=“Wazza, post:1182, topic:83078”]

@CallMeIo

Seems to me like your defending him.
[/quote]

Literally didn’t mention Mole at all.

@Wazza

@CallMeIo

But that’s the only person I’m pushing.
[/quote]

You’re legit pushing me, you literally just- you know what, I quit, I’m too tired for this shit today.

@Wazza

You hurt my head when you contradict yourself.

Feel like he is attacking Io with a purpose behind it and that purpose being to highlight hypocrisy. It could be just because I genuinely do think the things he highlighted are good things to point out but but I liked the way he did it, the additude he did it with, and what he actually did end up accomplishing.

My only reservation on this point is that he proceeded this whole thing with a vote (before really getting in to the meat and potatoes of the contradictions) and there is a world where he only started looking for things that looked bad after he decided he wanted to push Io but I still appreciated the push itself and thought it was good even if there’s a chance it was preplanned.

Conclusion:

I lightly town read Wazza for his push and aggression on CallMeIo near the end of his ISO, and do not think he is ever w/w with sulit.

This is potential w/w food for thought, given how CatLover has had a tendency to either shade town/scumread them (ash + gorta) or townread them to hell and back (sulit?, me). They called me “V with doubts.” The Wazza read seems to have different energy.

Noting how CatLover has also flat out ignored Mole until it was time to segway into the bus.

[Intensify]

I’ve literally said, just end me already, I really don’t feel like playing anymore. I’ve lost all hope in myself and I just don’t feel it anymore