[VFM] Town vs Bandits - Day 5 (4/13) - Bandits Win!

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:43pm

I feel like she’s way to worried about Vul flipping W.

If Vul flips V then I don’t think she can fake the lack of TMI that she’s displaying.

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:43pm

You were so sure of Vul being V because of the soulread. What now?

Chloe · August 30, 2021, 6:44pm

You defending a wolf without explaining in the slightest why you have them as town then blatantly softing PR and brushing it off as a joke yeah

that makes you a wolf

it’d be more than just ‘having an incorrect read’

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:44pm

I am still sure of it, just questioning your logic.

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:45pm

literally never happened, but guess it shows that you don’t have a good case on me if you have to resort to making shit up.

Chloe · August 30, 2021, 6:45pm

ok cool i was thinking the same but am not as familiar with her meta/strengths
ty

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:45pm

Emilia never really elaborated on the Vul read, tbfh. Just “a soulread” without going deeper.

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:45pm

…also where the hell did Eli went off to?

staypositivefriend · August 30, 2021, 6:46pm

i just caught up with the posts i missed, and seeing the progression of chloe going from townreading alice > voting alice because of vulgard’s case > townreading vulgard > voting vulgard because of alice’s case is so wild and devoid of caring about how vulgard/alice are gonna feel about her that it’s …probably villagery?

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:46pm

Willing to cfd there if you want!

Leafia · August 30, 2021, 6:46pm

I’ll see if I can find them.

Prophylaxis:

Just want to say hi to spf - not sure if you’re familiar with me at all, but I was speccing Voxx’s ROCKS mafia pretty closely and it was amazing to see you solve that game along with everyone else who randed v in that playerlist. Gonna be great fun to play a game with you here.

Alice:

be me

never randed wolf on this site in a long-ass while
in TvB because im bored as hell
shit-ton of FoL’s more stronger plays join
fucking SPF and Proph join outta nowhere
this is prolly the FoL game i rand W
and my buds will be two hyperpolarized players
can feel it in my bones
rand v so feeling glad
gg this gonna be ez

Alice:

I’m p sure that I can obvtown my self and get a fairly accurate solve due to the number of both serious and polarized players this match, so lol.

Not gonna bother to try-hard until like the middle of the day.

Alice, is there a reason why you had to make this post in response to Leafia’s accusation? Normally I’d expect something like “I can obvtown myself” if you had some mild pressure or a couple of votes on you, but you saying this to Leafia’s “gives me slightly bad vibes” feels a little like overcompensating.

For people who have experience with Alice: Does she “townsplain” a lot as either alignment? I kinda liked the first post she made, but the second one where she doubles down on calling herself town in response to a weak accusation is making my eyebrows twitch.

I like Arctic’s attempts to sort out Eli here, though one thing that I found intriguing was that Eli voted Alice in post 37 but then they considered Alice could be “a competent one” in 45 and unvoted in post 46, five minutes later. Eli, could you explain to me what kinda went on inside your head during the five minutes where you voted Alice and then unvoted? Did you just think that instead of a wolf, she could be a competent villager, and then you unvoted? Trying to walk through your thought process here a little.

Chloe:

Leafia doesn’t feel like she’s going to leak the nuclear launch codes, and her comfort level is a good look. I think she’s p villagery and is probably only a wolf if her scummates haven’t talked yet, as I’ve seen no indication of TMI

feels like its just that easy ngl

@EliThePsycho do you plan on doing this gimmick the entire game? ;p
I’d like to be able to read you as you and not a cowboy, but I won’t stop ya

Be back later when there’s more posts to digest

Kinda paranoid of the bolded honestly - especially considering that Chloe would have needed to copy and paste a wowee emoji from somewhere. I agree with her that Leafia is looking pretty comfy from these first couple of posts, but the “just that easy ngl wowee” part feels overexplained.

Vulgard:

Same. Please be town.

You too my dude

(Wanted to mention this in Ciconia postgame, but you were town, I replaced in as town, and the wolves got utterly smashed. Hope a similar thing happens this game if you’re v)

63 is a good post by Arctic, though I do want to hear from the horse’s mouth on what caused that indecision/unvote by Eli.

Vulgard:

This is where I would vote SPF if I didn’t already think Chloe’s a wolf. But SPF can be her partner ig.

Think others have already gotten to this point, but why is your w read on Chloe so confident based off of her opening post? I picked out something that I wasn’t completely sure of, but it’s still extremely early and I’m never sure on wolfreads early.

Vulgard:

Because I’m not used to seeing that from her V game.

You’re not used to v!Chloe being generally helpful to others in the game? Kind of having a hard time believing you believe this.

See spf/Arctic have similar thoughts to me around this time, so props.

Arctic stole the words out of me with his 91. The fact that Vulgard is pushing Chloe over something like this early game and being extremely confident in it, to the point of preflipping spf as a wolf based off of her first post where she claimed she was mafia/gay, is something I find really hard to believe.

This is the first one. It shows a depth of analysis that I like and feels like you’re genuinely trying to figure stuff out. It doesn’t feel faked at all.

[quote=“Prophylaxis, post:393, topic:89035, full:true”

You’re scumreading spf based of off… not saying anything yet, when there are several players who haven’t posted and I think I only had my RVS vote by the time this post was made? I keep saying this, but I have a really hard time believing that you’re making your reads in good faith.

Again, a couple of players haven’t gotten to the thread, while I think I had only my RVS vote at the time. Why didn’t you scumread me for posting anything of substance?

Plus, spf only had these two posts in the game thread at the time. You really think that’s an indication of her being a wolf?

Vulgard:

staypositivefriend:

is it normal for you to have astoundingly confident wolfreads within an hour of the game starting?
[/quote]

I feel like you’re either a wolf who is making these reads in bad faith or you’re purposefully overplaying this as a villager, because I know you’re a better player than this.

staypositivefriend:

funnily enough i kinda townread leafia too, and it’s almost entirely because her reaction to chloe getting bandwagoned was internally consistent w/the townread on chloe that she outed in the first few posts of the game. i think it would have been easy for leafia as a wolf to either drop her TR on chloe entirely upon seeing her getting pressured, or to hard defend chloe and TMI her as a villager, but leafia silently just started pushing on one of the people wolfreading chloe without bringing much attention to it

This is a good observation that I hadn’t considered. I do feel like Leafia would feel some ~internal pressure as a wolf to say something about one of her proposed townreads getting wagonned, and the fact that they chose not to really draw attention to it but instead voted Emilia (who had a pretty sheepy vote onto Chloe) is a good look for Leafia.

That said, is anyone able to enlighten me with Leafia meta just so I could double check? I know that Chloe mentioned that Leafia was the easiest read out of anyone in-thread, and the only time I’ve played with them was in Ciconia and they were outed cop and pretty villagery besides the fact. I’m not familiar with them as wolf - the only time I think I’ve seen her as wolf was in the FAM mash, and I barely read any posts in that game.

WRT Arctic’s 121 - I don’t know Emilia, but I do think her admittance that she didn’t think about the fact that Chloe’s reminder of the postcount limit was AI is a little townie? If I squint? Just feels like her admitting that shows a tiny lack of self awareness that I think most wolves would hesitate to put in the game thread.

Vulgard:

I guess Arctic/SPF/Chloe is possible , but… nah.

Vulgard:

Hard V

Vulg, do you normally consider worlds where your hard townreads could be potentially scumbuddies with who you’ve already outlined to be wolves?

Arctic:

i kind of like vulgard’s take on spf

is it weird that i just called him out for low level analysis then he comes out with this fairly complex associative read

Tell me what you like about it and why you think it comes from town Vulg? I just have an issue with how this read operates at a baseline (I have a hard time believing he genuinely believes that Chloe is very wolfy based on her reminding Leafia about the postcount restriction, and I have a even harder time believing that he thinks spf is wolf based off of making two housekeeping posts at the time, when people like me existed) so him making the associative read doesn’t hold up for me.

Quotes are broken here, but this shows a level of trying to figure things out that I feel generally comes from villagers. Sure, it could be faked, but it doesn’t feel faked.

Prophylaxis:

GGhana:

Alice kinda feels like she’s trying to take an advisor role in thread

I feel like that’s wolfy because that’s the optimal way For a wolf to approach the game in this playerlist.

You’re saying that Alice feels like she’s taking an advisory role in the game, but (I think?) later you say that Alice likes to take thread control as wolf? How do those statements both jive together?

~~No never mind, you’re saying that she does this as villager. Ignore me~~

I like Alice and spf’s (also Arctic’s) attempts to engage with Ghana. Think they’re doing it from a place of trying to genuinely understand Ghana as opposed to as a way to opportunistically push him.

Arctic’s 224 is also very good and nuanced in a way that I don’t think comes from his wolf game.

I keep reading Ghana’s posts and I feel like he’s desperately trying to focus more on explaining his mindset and what he was thinking about at the time to Alice/spf/Arctic about /why/ he thinks Alice and I are wolves. Feels like he is annoyed at getting misunderstood from all three of them? Just trying to think about how wolf Ghana might enter the thread and… my gut tells me that he doesn’t really try to sling mud at both Alice (who I think they share a history together) and me (someone who he doesn’t know very well, but I did I think send him some QTs on how to improve and told him to take notes during games to pare down his post count, so I think he knows I’m a decent player). Just trying to put myself into his shoes if he randed W in this playerlist and I don’t think he would immediately latch onto some of the stronger players in the game early?

Also my gut kinda tells me that he doesn’t walk back the proclaimed townread on Chloe because I feel like wolf Ghana knows that he would get eviscerated ITT as soon as he admitted that, but that’s not a super strong read and I don’t know him super well.

Really like Chloe’s 283; she kinda just nailed on what I found to be wolfy about Vulgard (in that I don’t believe he believes what he is saying)

I like 292 from Ghana as well - the progression between 287 and 292 where he engages with Chloe a bit and then goes “actually fuckit Chloe can be a villager read” reads as a fairly natural thought process.

Alice:

Chloe. GGhana. Please stop interacting with each other.

Why? I’ve liked how Ghana has interacted with Chloe over these past couple of posts.

Not exactly sure what to make of Eli’s two pushes this game being “I’ve reconsidered after a couple of minutes, unvote” (like the previous one was in five minutes, this one was in three). I think it’s kinda townie in a vacuum (because I feel like in general, if wolves decide to push something, they decide to full-blown go for it most of the time) but I’m also not familiar with Eli as a whole.

I do like his attempt to go back and ISO Chloe to get a more solid perspective on his read of her unprompted though.

Chloe:

I think the way she’s going about me and GGhana and her attempts to both ignore us and get us to ignore eachother isn’t the angle she takes here as a wolf. She usually plays earlygames for towncred and thread control.

Oh, so /this/ was the post I skimmed on my phone about Alice playing earlygame for towncred/thread control

For people who have played game with Alice, can you give me an idea of how she plays both alignments? Because Ghana is scumreading her for being advisor-y, and not taking thread control, and here’s Chloe saying that she plays for thread control, so I’m not exactly sure what to expect here.

willtaylor:

Emilia seems fake

I could be misinterpreting her personality or it could be too early

Go into depth about this a little? What in her posts indicate that she could be fake?

Chloe:

His overall tone feels like a mix of tryhard and fucking-around energy that doesn’t really match the level of confidence he has in his reads

Can you talk to me a little about this? I just reskimmed his ISO and his tone overall to me feels generally flat, like he’s… trying to play by a villager playbook. Don’t really see where he’s tryharding or has a “fking around energy”

Chloe:

As someone who has had quite a few games recently where he has been Extremely Wrong I don’t like the way he’s coming at this game

Aggressive and almost full of himself, when I’d expect him to be more… careful? Less tunnely?
Just uh
Not this
lol

I agree with this. I came out of like, the Orangevitational pretty humbled because I had a v read on Cryogenics most of the game and as a result I was pretty unconfident in most of my reads in Ciconia (was paranoid about pigeon flipping town, shot Wazza despite having a strong behavioral townread on her, etc). So him just going “Chloe wolf for this random early post, spf wolf because she introduced herself” feels extremely disingenuous coming from him after he called out like three villagers as wolves D1 of Ciconia.

(Yeah you cover that in your later posts lolol)

348 is basically summing up all of my concerns about Vul in one sentence. If you’re a wolf here Chloe, then you might be doing the same thing to me what I did to you in DitF LOL

Even more villagery feeling analysis that’s hard to fake as a wolf.

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:46pm

Why?

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:47pm

why not

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:47pm

better than current wagons imo I guess

Alice · August 30, 2021, 6:47pm

…what’s your read on Will?

staypositivefriend · August 30, 2021, 6:47pm

also i think that vulgard’s case on alice isn’t great. i still don’t really think he’s wolfy enough to warrant chopping today, tbqh?

im in that position where i dont explicitly wolfread his slot (it’s more of a nullread) but where im reluctant to go into defense mode for him because of how well everyone else knows him. if his friends who know him quite well feel very strongly that he’s a wolf, then maybe he is, but if im being honest the reasoning i’ve seen ~for~ him being a wolf hasn’t really resonated with me at all

Leafia · August 30, 2021, 6:47pm

At least somewhat confident, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if I was wrong.

Emilia · August 30, 2021, 6:48pm

Not reallt sure, but slightly good vibes

Chloe · August 30, 2021, 6:49pm

Who do you wanna chop most?

staypositivefriend · August 30, 2021, 6:49pm

by this, i mean that i’ve felt most of the logic against him has revolved around stuff like: “i don’t think vulgard would misread me this badly” or “vulgard isn’t interacting with me in the way i expect him to”, and it’s kind of impossible for me, as someone that does not have an established dynamic with vulgard or an awareness of your dynamics with vulgard, to trust in that read. i’m more interested in a holistic consideration of vulgard’s game and why it’s wolf-indicative for him specifically, but i don’t really feel like i’ve seen that yet

weh