Watch Your Mouth!: Sophomore Year (3/17) - Day 5 - Planters (Mafia) Win!

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 1:55am

Whysper:

Okay, it appears that for me to help with solving, I need to work on convincing everyone that I was put into the PoE for erroneous reasoning. So I am going to work on that by reviewing the 3 main cases set against me. I’m mostly setting aside the meta discussion since most agree that it should only be used as a supplement and self meta-analysis is problematic anyway.

Here are the 3 main cases summarized. I will discuss them in more detail in separate posts so that this one isn’t so long and to make it easier to reply to each specific case.

Case A: Wild West Discussion

I made a statement that Wild West shows the possibility of deep wolves and that we should keep an open mind. Luxy contends that I’m lying about Wild West and that there were no deep wolves, so I must be wolf to make this claim.

Case B: Disputing Alice

Alice made a statement about Esquiddy that he should be town-leaned for questioning why I town-leaned Derps. I commented that I think such a question is NAI.

Case C: Esquiddy Questioning

I was confused about whether Esquiddy was completely new or had some experience, so I pursued a line of questioning. I was especially concerned that he quickly voted for Derps, which seemed odd if he was completely new. Through the line of questioning, it was revealed that Esquiddy knows Derps IRL and had previously played or spectated a couple games.

Whysper:

Case A: Wild West Discussion

In the Wild West discussion, Luxy is focusing on the wrong question. He is looking at the question of whether Wild West did contain deep wolves, and if not, that I must be lying and therefore a wolf. But that’s the wrong question. The question should be whether I was making that statement about Wild West as town or as wolf.

T!Whysper

In the T!Whysper world, it doesn’t matter if it is objectively true that Wild West contained deep wolves. I was making the statement from my POV that I believed there were deep wolves. I was basing this on the fact that Cent and the other wolves all believed Cent was a deep wolf as well as Universal to some extent. Town leaders like Vulgard had placed Cent in their town core most of the game.

So believing that deep wolves were possible, I was trying to make a helpful suggestion to keep an open mind. Now some may contend that this suggestion is bad. I may be willing to agree that it is unwise given that it obviously triggers contempt in some people. I will certainly reconsider this for future games. However, making this bad suggestion does not mean that I’m a wolf. It is just as easily if not more likely that I’m just town making a bad suggestion.

W!Whysper

In the W!Whysper world, Luxy is claiming that it’s obvious that Wild West had no deep wolf. He is suggesting that I’m intentionally lying to push a call for a deep wolf hunt. Now does this make sense? If I was a wolf, why would I along with my wolf partners try out this tactic of lying about Wild West to start a deep wolf hunt? Why take this risk of getting called out for lying and completely invalidating my point about deep wolves? Why even bring up something so inherently flawed and draw unwanted attention as it has obviously done?

Conclusion

So which seems more likely? That I’m T!Whysper who believed something even if possibly wrong and made a suggestion? Or that I’m W!Whysper with partners who conceived a plan for me to try using an easily uncovered lie to push an agenda for deep wolves that would only draw attention to myself?

Either Alice or Marshal is her partner.
Or Whysper is Town.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 1:56am

I mean I suppose PKR could be too. But eh.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 1:56am

/Vote Tro

I feel like there’s a good chance Tro is PK’s buddy from the events of last EoD

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 1:57am

Whysper:

So let me spew this forth before I die…

Okay, here are my reads. I admit I haven’t been able to spend a lot of time reviewing more because I’ve been battling this push on me. That’s part of why I’m so frustrated with it. It’s completely exaggerated based on a misrepresentation of my words. And it has basically put a stop on my helping to find wolves because I have to defend and anything further I say to help with questions is just dismissed as more wolf performance. It seems that putting work into trying to clear myself isn’t viewed as worthy. At this point the assumption is that everything can be faked without even examining the motivations for faking things.

Town
Whysper
Appelsini
Trochilidae
Marshal
Wazza

Town Lean
Alice
SirDerpsAlot
Surge
An_gorta_pratai
Insanity

Null
Luxy - I can’t decide if this push is wolf or unreasonable town, so stuck in null

Scum Lean
Esquiddy - has pretty much dropped off from doing anything and seems to be giving up

PokemonKidRyan - my earlier read was null to possibly SL for the weird discussion on the word “wolf” that he claims was RT. Something just seems off, so possibly SL. I haven’t seen anything since then to move this up, though as I said, I’ve also been distracted with the push on me.

Why do you TR Tro?

DatBird · September 9, 2020, 2:01am

Vooooooottttttteeee couuuntttttt

Accused	Voted By	Votes
Whysper	Luxy	1/7
Surge	PKR	1/7
Wazza	Insanity	1/7
Marshal	Alice	1/7
Trochilidae	Surge	1/7
Not voting	Whysper, Wazza, an_gorta_pratai, SirDerpsAlot, Esquiddy, Trochilidae, Appelsiini, Marshal	8

~~sulit~~ the vc bot
votes against people not in game count as unvotes

Whysper · September 9, 2020, 2:05am

Mainly because her tone seems carefree and I didn’t see anything wolfish.

The only time a red flag came up was when she and Alice voted for Moleland within minutes of each other. So I was wondering if possibly they were both wolves who discussed pushing on Moleland and that Troch accidentally voted too soon. But that seems way too careless. I think it was just coincidence based on Moleland saying something a little earlier. Other votes on Moleland came soon after as well I think.

Trochilidae · September 9, 2020, 2:35am

can i ask you to clarify?
i’ve been hearing this for quite awhile
what makes you think i don’t want to die?
is it simply my tone or style?
or do you have more than simply this
i’d like to know what i could miss

Whysper · September 9, 2020, 2:38am

Okay, apparently spew was not the word, but I still have a bit more to spew…

I thought perhaps by spending a couple hours to write out the arguments against me and show how the reasoning makes no sense or requires big leaps, that someone reasonable would examine this. But no, I guess I was mistaken. Basically the loud voices have already forced me into perpetual PoE. It doesn’t matter that there were exaggerated arguments that were later refuted and then taken back. Or that my words were twisted into a fanciful story about me having an agenda to negate town reads left and right the whole time. The damage is done. If loud voices repeat something enough, it becomes truth.

You want to talk about improving townplay? Instead of just screaming at people to “act like town”, let people try to actually improve their townplay. I’ve seen it over and over again that people are just shot down immediately with harsh criticisms when they attempt to do something. It’s like the “masters” here expect masterful play or else. If you happen to say something that is a good read, you are simply said to be sheeping or following consensus. If you try to ask questions that you think are reasonable but that the “masters” view as worthless, then you are performing or wasting time. If you try to think outside the box and keep an open mind, you are labelled as scum with an agenda.

BTW, I don’t think all the master players act this way. Vulgard is someone I highly admire. And I think Appel could become a good town leader if given even half a chance instead of being shot down for her different approach.

Anyway, if you think of any other words for me to try saying, just ping me the first letter and the definition. I will probably be busy catching up with work the remainder of the day. Thanks.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:03am

Why ping me?

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:04am

Oh wait that’s Tro

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:04am

I thought that was Light lol.

Trochilidae · September 9, 2020, 4:18am

who says both can’t be true?
oh, if only you knew
it matters little if we switch
our plan went off without a hitch
to cause mass confusion just for fun
we’re secretly two disguised as one

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:22am

you can’t trick me.
Pretty sure I seen you in the same game as Light.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:23am

PKR or Tro I believe are good lynches for today.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 4:24am

Whysper:

Okay, apparently spew was not the word, but I still have a bit more to spew…

I thought perhaps by spending a couple hours to write out the arguments against me and show how the reasoning makes no sense or requires big leaps, that someone reasonable would examine this. But no, I guess I was mistaken. Basically the loud voices have already forced me into perpetual PoE. It doesn’t matter that there were exaggerated arguments that were later refuted and then taken back. Or that my words were twisted into a fanciful story about me having an agenda to negate town reads left and right the whole time. The damage is done. If loud voices repeat something enough, it becomes truth.

You want to talk about improving townplay? Instead of just screaming at people to “act like town”, let people try to actually improve their townplay. I’ve seen it over and over again that people are just shot down immediately with harsh criticisms when they attempt to do something. It’s like the “masters” here expect masterful play or else. If you happen to say something that is a good read, you are simply said to be sheeping or following consensus. If you try to ask questions that you think are reasonable but that the “masters” view as worthless, then you are performing or wasting time. If you try to think outside the box and keep an open mind, you are labelled as scum with an agenda.

BTW, I don’t think all the master players act this way. Vulgard is someone I highly admire. And I think Appel could become a good town leader if given even half a chance instead of being shot down for her different approach.

Anyway, if you think of any other words for me to try saying, just ping me the first letter and the definition. I will probably be busy catching up with work the remainder of the day. Thanks.

I’d agree with you that Appel is a top tier player but other players such as Alice shut them down.

Luxy · September 9, 2020, 4:29am

What is Troch doing

Trochilidae · September 9, 2020, 4:35am

could i refer you to this quote
and ask the question here
i’ve seen you place your vote
but could you be more clear?
what exactly don’t you like
what’s not up to par?
it’s all well and good to tell me to take a hike
but be specific please, what doesn’t meet the bar?

Marshal · September 9, 2020, 4:52am

u can complain that the leaders are “screaming”, but it does not make you townier. If you want to prove you are town, help solve who the wolves are and show us your thought process. That is the top way to do so.

ChopChop · September 9, 2020, 5:17am

It’s your EoD and how you reacted towards PK.

Trochilidae · September 9, 2020, 5:31am

to be fair, i’m always cautious
even though i’m just a novice
i don’t like throwing votes around
it seems to me that’s anti-town
so yes, i like to take my time
is being careful now a crime?
i found the reasons i needed
and i had not conceded
i voted PK, though it was slow
(this doesn’t clear me, i know)
my point here is, this is how i behave
i’ve done this always, and to the grave