What was wrong with the prince/wishper meta?

#1

I want to understand. there are 2 ways playing this game

  1. Noone is claiming, everyone waiting for investigative classes to find cult/unseen (boring as hell).
    Unseen tactics: hope I won’t have to claim (wow so much fun!)

  2. Claiming to a confrimed bd, fake logs, manipulate the prince, help the prince.

It’s seems like every patch the designers fighting the claims meta, making both bd and evil roles.
a. removed wishper meta (35% evil king)
b. remove prince meta (sorc circle of death buff)
c. (long ago) limit the town for 2 people voted up per day

I really don’t get it.
It should be the other way around, make people claim and fake.
If it’s up to me, ill make less invest roles and the game more about claims.

#2

It’s the fact that it makes it so hard on the Bad guys.

Say you claim mystic then get converted

Rip you

1 Like
#3

I Get it that it makes it harder but you can design the game in a way that evil have to claim and the game is balanced.

#4

They can still get claims by whispering to king.

They just refuse cause of noble

#5

The claim meta isn’t awful inherently

Just easy for BD, requiring lower skill than reading and deducing from public knowledge

You really want a mix of both types of gameplay

3 Likes
#6

No, there way more than that. if you’re just sitiing and do nothing then don’t complain that BD lost the game isn’t only about claims and investigators.

How is this bad? Like it isn’t the Devs fault that people are inventing some annoying and powerful strarts.

The problem lies in mindset of most players not in actual gameplay. The meta was always a thing that was frustrating and not very fun to play with and against.

3 Likes
#7

The focus should not be on whispering or invest results

it should be on deductions, catching scumslips, seeing motive and their intentions behind their words? Is it to inform BD or to push a lie? This is a scum or a fool?(SOMETHING YOU SHOULD NEVER BE ASKING)

if people would actually put the social in social deduction we wouldn’t have a problem

3 Likes
#8

The problem is that it’s too good. It’s far more interesting for unknowns to try and get information from other unknowns using psychological manipulation to get them to talk

Let’s put it this way with the whisper meta:
Step 1: Prince outs
Step 2: Everyone claims to him. Evils fake claim
Step 3: Prince cross-references logs to see who is probably scum
Step 4: Prince gets BD or Evils killed depending on his own skill compared to the scums

The problem with this should be clear. The Prince has plenty of fun and the Evils might too. However that leaves the 6-7 other BD who have no reason to work with anyone besides the Prince. Suddenly there is nothing you can say to get someone to claim to you because the Prince can just tell you on a need to know basis. This is just boring for the other BD and feels hopeless for the Scum even if they have solid claims and logs.

3 Likes
#9

For example my play style is to:

Use whispers on scum reads to get their class like a Prince would. Use defencive Ability’s or request protection to survive early game.

Day 4 or so start whispering null and town reads for claims. Coordinate the players I can get claims out of and investigate the rest.

Use the information to figure out who needs to be eliminated and in what order.

Note: At no point is anything alignment or class spacific required for any of this. I have done this as both Physician, Assassin, King (good and evil), Fool, Scorned and Sorcerer successfully.

#10

What was wrong with the prince/wishper meta? The whisper.

No one.

A confirmed.

Whisper.

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#11

This is a false dichotomy. The playstyle I referred to involved claiming to an unconfirmed BD for example. Also there is claiming publicly and I’m sure there are other strategies too involving town blocks ect.

2 Likes
#12

Like

Hey I am a alch wanna give a claim

Hey I am a Assassin Hunter wanna give a claim?

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#13

More or less with more BD roles involved

1 Like
#14

Exactly. Or more likely “Claim or die”. And then they just do it no questions asked.

3 Likes