good but Order Execution should be a public thing. like if someone is OE’d it says so.
New king is awful and old king with allies is a million times better. The Old King gave games a sense of direction with a central leadership role that had actual POWER. Old King was fun as hell and felt like a King. New king is an empty slot that should be killed ASAP regardless of his actual faction. Why? Because his allegiances are unverifiable, he could be evil, and has a killing ability. As such, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for any class to confer with King. Why would Prince talk to the king? Or Sheriff? Or Observer? New King has caused a complete breakdown in BD’s communication system. There is no longer anybody to risk trusting. There is no longer a proper whisper mule. Any class that is trustworthy enough for BD will not want to be in the public eye.
All of my games so far on the new patch have been boring and samey. It’s not that players aren’t ‘working hard enough’, it’s that there’s no incentive to trust, no good ways to gather information directly or indirectly.
It also pisses me off coming to these forums and seeing haters of Allies say condescending bullshit like “Most experienced players were in agreement Allies was a terrible ability, which is why it has now been removed”, the implication being if you don’t agree with Allies being removed you’re a shit player.
Well I’m an experienced player. Over 300 hours. I hate the changes.
If you REALLY hate allies that much, why not toy with other ideas of limiting it instead of straight up deleting the king from the game in an extremely hamfisted way? Why not try 3 charges of Allies? Why not 2? Why not make Allies only usable after Night 3? Why not make Allies give “suspicious/not suspicious” as feedback?
Really disappointed and at this point I’m just hoping the developers don’t gut other classes I enjoy.
Most experienced players were in agreement Allies was a terrible ability, which is why it has now been removed.
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Because that’s keeping Invest!King. It’s not like we specifically hate the ability “Allies”. Rather, the issue was that giving King Investigative-type powers dumbs down the game and generally turns the early-game into “follow the King”. Slightly changing how King’s investigations worked would not fix this issue. Plus, many of us were here before Allies was added in the 0.9.14 patch. I don’t know if you were, but we’re capable of determining when a change has hurt the game, and that was certainly the case with allies.
That said, I have not played with the new King, and I’m not defending these changes at all because I can’t yet. It is possible that this King will be worse than Allies. But I kinda doubt it, and plus being worse than something awful doesn’t make the awful thing good.
No, the implication is that most experienced players were in agreement on this one.
You seem to be missing the word “most”.
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In all seriousness I didn’t mean to be patronising, I just meant that a large portion of the player base have not experienced ToL without allies so think not having it will disrupt the game.
The vast majority of those who have played the game both with and without allies recognise that allies was an unhealthy change for the game and are happy with the changes.
I’m not saying we know better, it’s just that we’ve played a lot of hours under both systems where as most of the people complaining have nothing to compare the ally-meta to.
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Hours=/= experience
I have 265(?) hours (a lot were lobby queues in alpha and beta)
Yet I consider myself experienced and a lot of people would agree with me, as I was around a long time and know what the hell I am talking about.
Strictly ToL as I don’t consider FoL as ToL exactly due to cult point and other things. If I did include FoL hours I would say around 500+
The new king is a problem for BD. The problem is:
- King can no longer verify self through checks, meaning never trustworthy
- Because kings are never trustworthy and can kill at night, important roles are unlikely to contact
- Because important roles are afraid to contact king, king often lacks good information
- King has lots of guards now but rarely knows who to use them on
That said, I’ve played the new king as Evil and Neut and it was great fun both times. In the last game I won as the only unseen left because I was able to deduce prince and another bd in the endgame. The neut game I also won by working with unseen after they outed themselves late game. King is less suspected of being evil now that he has less ability to actually generate information.
I haven’t played BD king yet but I suspect it’s an overall bad position, unable to gather good information, unable to gain trust of BD, and afraid to use guard attack for fear of killing a BD.
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This is good, There shouldn’t be a four-shot faction checker that is always in a game
There is a day phase for a reason
That’s BD fault then
BD’s fault…AGAIN
A lot of your complaints rely on one another, if I fixed one the rest would evaporate
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Verify through kills instead then
“Roles” lol. Lesser important classes however are MORE likely to contact you so as to A: bait out your alignment, B: Coven themselves from yolorder and C: Allow themselves to be given direction like they already do.
The lesser important claims count as good information considering that you will have a lot of them.
Himself obviously.
You seem to be forgetting that a killing ability lets the king force someone to claim. You aren’t going to hold back your Sheriff claim to a king that will kill you anyways.
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FYI I have played the new BD king. He is amazing to play and gets tons of info and can allow for lots of interesting dynamics (particularly with prince, hunter and knight)
I agree, I see quite a bit of potential with him… of course, I also see a boatload of humor for my alchemist kill notes
/\/\/\
|__| YOLO
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The King was ALWAYS unverifiable through checks, since he’s able to lie. In fact, the new King actually does more to Nerf Evil/Cult king as before, he had a way to actually discover reasonably reliably an evil, and could use multiple whispers as cover to contact them and let them know. Now he has to infer who his allies are just like most of BD. With or without allies, important roles should’ve always been hesitant to out to the king. Also, nobugz: Unfortunately we now have an Infinite faction checker that always spawns with unseen and is now unconvertable AND unique. That is the only part of this patch I really have a problem with.
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But he doesn’t have guards and isn’t confirmed. So there is some ability to play around him.
Still see where you are coming from though, would prefer old Sheriff but make Paladin unconvertible and guaranteed.
Sheriff is as confirmed as Prince. There is simply no faking it anymore in an unseen game. Nobugz: I thought they changed Defile? That would be the one case where it is doable, but that seems very situational. After looking back in patch notes, I have no idea why I thought they changed how Defile works. My bad.
a CC can work… if it’s down to the wire… or you are a disposable member. I’m a huge fan of sacrifice plays… but yeah you got competing sheriff claims… the BD should hang one. and if they are wrong, obviously hang/jailexe the other.
Admitted it isn’t as bad as prince or hunter that obviously will solve the conflict of claims personally.