The point is that it is an action that is 100% indistinguishable from the right answer.
methods to find the people you are supposed to execute.
scumread, determine the persons actions are contrary to BDs.
night investigations.
As obvious in both of those cases…fool would likely pass that test. The only reliable method to avoid such… is prince… but he may or may not still be alive when the fool acts.
False. Lynching fool/jester/NE isn’t a good lynch.
BD’s wincon is to kill all Unseen/Cult and any neutrals which stand in their way
This means Unseen/Cult and NK.
A technically wrong action. Thus punishment is fair.
Furthermore as stated above this significantly challenges the VFR/VFC/RVS which is important as it makes you have to deduce things using logic and reasoning instead of just having the game easy. As also pointed out BD has a huge winrate atm, we need things like Fool to reduce this winrate and make it so evils have a better chance than they do at this time
How does it actually prevent that though? Yes hitting a fool is a problem with hitting that… so instead focus on the method of investigations that isn’t likely to trip up with a fool… which is??? Oh right absolutely nothing other than never execute and let the prince deal with anyone who is sus. Which is still a valid option in VFC. The fact that ANY method to find evil is triggered by the fool, it makes it a “fact of life inevitable hit”, which only encourages doing more cheesy things to compensate for the unavoidable hit you will take with the fool.
Best strategy that comes to my mind… try and find and execute him in the first 2 days. 2 days of punishment starting day 2 is nothing compared to 1 days punishment day 5-6. Your early catches are more likely to be replaced, you can’t find the MM etc… anyway, they will almost certainy convert and keep their numbers the same if you can’t get 2 back to back anyway.
Making BD members have a 10% chance of having a heart attack each night regardless of evils would also accomplish this. It’s random and entirely outside of their ability to counteract of course… but so’s fool.
Good thing fools don’t stand in their way ever. 2 unseen, 3 BD and a fool… do you have voting power even if you know who the 2 unseen are? Nope… the fool would more or less be gamethrowing if he doesn’t stand in your way.
Fool can be found in many ways actually. Fool can be found by their own ability usage of Hide. Another way fool can be uncovered is if they come up as evil once and NS the night after or if they’re simply just checked as neutral. I hear what you’re going to say pretty clearly “But PKR, they can be NK” Yes, this is true. However, very often you realize who NK is pretty early. A princess check can counter this as can, again, their hide ability.
The “inevitable hit” that the Fool produces doesn’t really exist and it’s important that it’s there to at least reduce the aforementioned VFR/VFC/RVS. The Fool can only make themselves show as suspicious 2 times, so it’s all about them having to think when to do it. It’s not necessarily easy.
No offence here, but are you even thinking about what you’re saying? Fool isn’t RNG. Fool is a class which you need to strategise in order to counteract when it shows up. It’s a class which you need to play and try not to be too obvious. King could easily OE you otherwise, couldn’t they?
Which one’s the King in this scenario? BD = Vote Unseen up anyway. Unseen = Whisper fool and get them to vote up a BD, allowing for them to then vote Fool next day safely.
P-Edit: Spelling of there. Nice job autocorrect
Frame also counters princess check to be nitpicking.
I really like Fool and wish for it to stay. In current ToL you also have to, to some extent, be able to read afk lazy BD apart from scum. Fool is just another similar dimension on top of that. Sometimes lynching “bad or afkish” BD can also be seen as a correct lynch, just as fool, as they might make bad calls later.
Getting executed at day is also a real skill. One that unseen wanting their MM to reconvert also need to possess.
In order for Fool to come up as this after having already came up as I suggested before, they would have to use their second self frame the night after their first, leaving for the inevitable time they’re found as not scum faction and the very inevitable not NK.
However, other than that part I fully agree on the importance in Fool
It isn’t necessarally easy, but it still is a pretty high chance that works more often than not. The point is you can’t counter someone acting sus by checking them out, because when they draw some attention there’s a good chance the real fool will frame. I’d still say early game it’s generally better to execute because for the most part the costs of working around (especially suggestions you’ve made, like checking them twice) using up one of the prince’s executions and nights of jailing etc… are all pretty close to equally costly to the bd as 2 nights of executions early game, or 1 night mid-game.
Generally speaking a fool/jester like class is in all games, VFC is always a popular strategy in any game in which the majority of good guys have some confirmable aspect of their logs… if we want to reduce/eliminate VFC type strategies, we need to work on lessening those confirmabilities.
[quote] No offence here, but are you even thinking about what you’re saying? Fool isn’t RNG. Fool is a class which you need to strategise in order to counteract when it shows up. It’s a class which you need to play and try not to be too obvious. King could easily OE you otherwise, couldn’t they?
[/quote]
it isn’t RNG no, I was just pointing out that just because something lowers BDs win chance, doesn’t mean it’s being done in the right way.
I wasn’t factoring in a king in that particular example, but the point universally is, what does the unseen/cult have to do to ensure victory, the universal answer without a doubt is to bring the numbers to where BD does not have the votes to execute them. Does the fool count towards those numbers, obviously he does, therefore he stands in the BDs way.
Scorned makes people doubt investigative claims, it doesn’t discourage random accusing. Scorned is also unique.
Scorned being unique doesn’t matter. You only need one.
Evil King stops random accusations.
There’s this awesome thing called voting.
And believe it or not a scorned can vote!
All Fool does is casually make the game less fun for everyone who isn’t Fool. A good fool is basically going to win 100% of the time, with no way to play against them.
