Wild West FM - Day 5 - Mafia Win!

[Appelsiini]

Intensify

[Wazza]

First of all the Intensify wagon isn’t picking up which I feel has more scum equity than Apprentice. Personally I don’t know what the fuck Apprentice is doing but I wouldn’t mind him dying. @Intensify here is your shot.
Second of all, the reason I suspect Vulgard is the fact he keeps backtracking himself, first he talked about how he wanted Yee-Claw shot, then Yee-Claw dies and he doesn’t notice while reading back, Gorta tells him that he shot Yee-Claw and a moment later this starts making Vulgard suspect him for heavens knows what reason when it’s literally what Vulgard wanted.

While Vulgard may have done other town productive things, this is a major god damn red flag in my eyes, need I say more?

@Appelsiini

At least go treat that stupid wound, I want you to take care of yourself.

You make it hard to get annoyed at you. Here’s your explanation on 2 of my reads for now, typing hurts rn so I’ll be back in around 30 minutes, I may have underestimated the cut.

[Appelsiini]

Okay nvm

[Appelsiini]

I was gonna suggest hero shooting because lol!toneread but nah

[Intensify]

Fine I’m shooting App. If App flips town, just write some flavor about me jumping off a cliff after deciding to shoot a normal cowboy instead of the suicidal one.

/shoot App
@Marshal @Italy

[Intensify]

@Appelsiini

I was gonna suggest hero shooting because lol!toneread but nah

The only person I think I would heroshoot is L1ght.

[Marshal]

Miss!

[Marshal]

(also we have an APPrentice and an APPelsiini so when voting / shooting can you make that slightly more clear. Shot missed anyways but this is just a note for the future)

[Intensify]

Oh thank god…
I mean I guess this is a decent outcome.

[Wazza]

(gonna quickly apologise for being toxic, this cut just hurts badly and it’s in British nature to be in a bad mood when you’re in pain)

[Intensify]

My Canadian blood forces me to say sorry if I’m in pain

[Universal]

I wanted to do an ISO on Apprentice last night so this is my ISO.

@Apprentice

haha you have the same read as 2 other people you must be oppurtunistic

what kind of bs logic is that I literally entered thread and started making reads. how is having a similar read to other players wolfy

Something that bothered me with the quote and the ones that came before it is how strong the tone was. He was very confident in his read on Surge, which apparently it isn’t hard to read Surge based off meta, but now he is just quiet. Its a complete 180 from what he is right now.

Also, I kinda don’t like how defensive he was about PKR’s paranoia. I personally know how paranoid PKR can be, and I also get the same thoughts when too many people agree on a read with me. That is the reason why I didn’t want to 100% scumread PKR and read through their ISO to get a handle on his thought progression. This just seems to be like someone who doesn’t want to get suspected about following town’s progression so easily as PKR was beginning to have second thoughts on how quickly things escalated.

@Apprentice

haha you made a read that others made you must be scum

gtfo I literally am just going through thread and pointing out things. Seth is blantantly wolfy as you yourself pointed out. how is agreeing with this wolfy from me? do you disagree with my thoughts? if so could you explain why? essentially your read on me right now boils down to “he made the same read as 2 other people and therefore is opportunistic” which means nothing. you didn’t attempt to evaluate the read I made at all

Again, he comes off as a strong player with his tone and continues to be really defensive to PKR’s doubts. I think at this stage he was the only one acting this aggressive about it.

@Apprentice

I mean it’s objectively probably just wrong. Vulgard has mentioned to me that he has a meta of joking around to try and fit in as scum and he did have a lot of not serious posts in FoL 29 even though he’s self aware of it. But then I sae he did the same thing in SFoL 63 so it’s a pointless way to read him imo.

He also seems to based his reads a lot on what Vulgard said. Not going to really put a lot of emphasis on this since I also did the same at the beginning when I haven’t read the thread entirely.

@Apprentice

@Moleland

App has 9 posts. Does the possibility of the slot getting a new face to represent it affect how hard you want it lynched?

I won’t get replaced out since I don’t wanna get signup blacklisted reeeeeeeeee. I’ll make at least 20 posts

@Apprentice

also btw Moleland is just town. Every single time they’ve been scum they’ve had a huge focus on interactions (often W/W) that would take up much of the thread and cause a lot of distraction

@Apprentice

Surge bad

Mole, Trochili, Vulgard, Mist good

thanks for coming to my TED talk

@Apprentice

I already said Mole good don’t kill Mole

yee is like w/e I don’t strong scumread the slot but I don’t have any reason to think it’s town

He has light interaction with mole early on and tries to defend him as being good. Using information he has on the type of meta Mole usually goes by as mafia. I actually feel like this is some W/W interaction. Mafia busses Surge for towncred while trying to clear mole lightly at first.

@Apprentice

@clonedcheese

Mole I think is >rand town because Seth

why do you think Seth voting Mole makes him town as a doomed slot?

@Apprentice

but if you think Seth is a caught wolf (which I think you’re implying lmk if I’m mistaken here) why are you reading into what he does at all, especially enough to lean someone over?

Reading these two posts, it feels like mafia decided to bus Surge early on if Apprentice is a W/W. Meaning that one of the major propagators for the Surge lynch was the mafia themselves. If this comes out to be true, that means we shouldn’t put any value on who voted for Surge, but more who pushed for Surge or even threw shade at them but never voted them.

@Apprentice

@ash4fun

Unless seth and intensify both started antispew 6 hours into D1, I don’t think they both counterbus mole.

like if seth scum seth doomed

how is this a reasonable conclusion? Seth+Intensify pressuring someone doesn’t make them look worse if you already think they’re lock-wolf so not voting Mol is in no way them setting up Mole to go deep

@Apprentice

@clonedcheese

However regardless of seth’s alignment I think that mole is likely to be town

Seth often tunnels town as town
and I dont recall him bussing quite often

as;odijfiaosj;doifjasdfijasio WHAT

this argument basically boils down to

“seth is tunneling them and I’m assuming that seth is tunneling incorrectly if town or pushing town as scum”

the second part of that (pushing town as scum) is meh cuz he’s probably just anti-spewing if scum

the first part of that (pushing town as town) IS COMPLETELY WHACK. Town Seth does tunnel people and is often uhhhhh quite incorrect. This doesn’t make the person he’s tunneling town. Assuming that someone V!Seth tunneled is town just because he tunneled them is a big WTF

@Apprentice

@ash4fun

Assuming they were not in antispew, these votes are on someone they want exe’d

this is bad assumption to make. Seth has basically no chance of not dying today so he’d definitely be in antispew. I honestly don’t remember Intensify’s posts. I do think this is a really bad assumption to make any reads based off of though. In Insurgency Seth went into anti-spew like an hour into Day 1. We’re near EoD here.

I kinda like Apprentice’s reads here. He basically doesn’t trust the information/actions Surge did get Mole clear, which would be something mafia would want to do if Surge’s bus would not only give them credit, but also give Mole some hope.

@Apprentice

this is wrong

I have TMI and Mole is town

Not sure if him still believing Mole is a town is genuine or he is just joking like the first part of this post. But he seems really adamant on defending Mole.

@Apprentice

@RangerCecil

This post is a piece of work.

You literally are not suggesting any other counterwagons, you are literally voting Mole as of this point, and you’re literally trying to negate townreads on me by pointless remarking that I have a potentially strong wolfgame.

In addition you claim that we should judge me by accuracy and then preflip my PoE as all likely villagers, this is also despite that Vulgard, Luxy, and a few other members of the towncore also got to this PoE independently.

ok this post is almost exactly how Alice went about discrediting Wazza the instant Wazza scumread them in SFoL 63. There’s no attempt to interact with or understand yee-haw at all. I get that Cecil does scumread them. Why is this entire post devoted to discrediting everything about yee? Instead of just saying why their read on you is wrong you just try to discredit their entire readlist. Yes you scumread them. But you’re not even trying to have a dialogue with them at all.

Apprentice tries to briefly defend Yee-Claw while throwing shade on Cecil on how their way of trying to disprove Yee-Claw is similar to Alice. This post just feels weird considering what we know now.

Also these posts:

@Apprentice

@Leafia

I literally can’t fathom a world where they flip town based on how they’re acting right now.

stahp this

I’ve watched you do this over and over again based on any slight read you have regardless of alignment and being wrong very often. Please slow down and actually attempt to case people instead of just saying things like this

@Apprentice

How should I know? You just haven’t attempted to even try to let them clear themselves, you’ve just devoted yourself to discredting them

@Apprentice

yee-claw is like low end of null-slight scumlean for me

can you actually address why you’re handling yee this way?

@Apprentice

@RangerCecil

how he immediately pre-flipped PKR as a wolf bussing Seth despite him having no read on Seth,

this is bad but why do you think it comes from a wolf? this site has abysmal fucking preflips from village all of the time. this is more bad play that is more likely to come from scum imo

@RangerCecil

implying TMI

shitty preflip is not TMI lmao

@RangerCecil

how his SR on light was literally just because light had a high post-count,

the whole thing surrounding Light has been fucking awful. there are people scumreading Light for saying he’s doing nothing but spamming thread with fluff. there’s people townreading Light for being relaxed while doing said nothing. both of these are very shallow conclusions, but at least the first one is more reasonable. It’s literally what Marshal had Maxi do in ToSFM where he just spammed the thread to hell and back with fluff.

@RangerCecil

the reasoning behind his vote on me was that I sound angry.

@yee-claw

It felt much more like “she is angry at me” instead of “she is trying to solve my slot”. Specially with the “you had enough time to read the thread already” witty remark. Her tone didn’t help.

I think this is a legitimate read that can come from town. if town feels like you’re not trying to solve their slot and instead are just shading them isn’t that a valid reason to scumread you?

The entire point of this isn’t to defend yee. It’s just to say I don’t see how you’re so confident yee is a wolf that your response to them scumreading you is not to have a dialouge, but rather to attack the entirety of their readslist in an attempt to invalidate everything they’ve done in thread. Even if you were confident they were a wolf you should be trying to let them clear themselves in case they are town as opposed to just trying to dismiss literally everything they do without any evaluation of it.

He first tries to defend yee-claw softly, I mainly get that thought from the fact that he revealed where yee-claw is in his list as very ‘low end scumlean’ (I think that means that they were very close to NULL but not quite due to some stuff) and then saying that yee-claws actions actually come from town. He then says how this isn’t a defense as he quite literally defends yee-claw and tries to disprove Cecil’s reads based on site meta and history of very bad PoEs. Which, to me at least, is a bit shaddy? It just feels weird how Apprentice is so against the PoE the thread made up to that point.

@Apprentice

what don’t you like about it?

@Apprentice

@Mistyx

you writing out an entire defense

There is literally no defense at all. I never said Cecil shouldn’t be wolfreading yee. I think it’s very reasonable to wolfread yee here. I’m saying that there’s a big difference between pushing someone you think is a wolf and attempting to discredit the entirety of someones readslist with no evaluation

Mist also picks up on the inconsistency and Apprentice rebuttals them.

@Apprentice

because the points were fucking awful

having awful points on someone doesn’t mean that someone is townie it just means your case on them is atrocious

I was saying that Cecil’s take was there for the sole purpose of discrediting yee and not an actual evaluation

Then Mist replies on how Apprentice’s entire post was defending Yee by stating how Cecil’s points were not accurate. This is Apprentice’s reply to Mist. Again, very aggressive tone and tries to justify their defense by saying how Cecil’s points in general just didn’t state how Yee is mafia, just tried to discredit them. Which I can see why he would mount such a big defense over Yee, just don’t like how he tried to hide it at first. Or maybe he didn’t realize it?

@Apprentice

Mole made bad points in Purgatory too. He was village there. Some players make bad points as town. Why do you think his are scummy here?

@Apprentice

So you think he’s scummy, because he scumreads you but is unwilling to push you for it?

@Apprentice

I think your read on Moleland makes sense, I just don’t think it’s out of Moleland’s townrange. He seems much more similar to how he was in Purgatory (where he also just made an elaborate OMGUS) than any other game from what I’ve seen so far. Do you think there is distinction between his play here and there or that there is something here that is distinctly scummy from what you know of Mole?

Apprentice tries to defend Mole again.

@Apprentice

yeah I think the scumread makes sense, I was just confused by your prior post

also thanks for explaining read it helps a lot so thanks for doing it

Doesn’t flip but realizes Centuries’ points on mole.

@Apprentice

well I mean if someone is literally openwolfing then blast them if they haven’t shot

but anyone who intends to openwolf is going to shoot before/as they do so

Another weird post.

@Apprentice

uh I won’t be on anymore before EoD

if my some miracle I perish I do want to say

Cecil should never be endgaming EVER. I think they’re a decent shot tomorrow although I know a lot of you are going to disagree. Their posts are very similar to how Alice handled Wazza in SFoL 63. And if they’re town they are a good enough player that wolves gonna kill them soon enough.

He goes on to say Cecil should never endgame. Going as far as to recommend a shot on Cecil D2.

@Apprentice

@Vulgard

Shoot until dead:

cloned (hoping people actually read my case lol)
intensify
yee-claw
moleland
apprentice

why the ever living fuck do you have me on the list

I spend the entirety of day 1 dunking Seth and I’m on the list because “haha you bus sometimes”
Can we fucking not?

@Apprentice

You did zero evaluation of me

Your entire case is that I pushed a wolf

Fuck off

@Apprentice

Like I’m literally getting scumread for being a major part in getting a wolf killed

@Apprentice

I LITERALLY PROVIDED A CASE ON ALL OF SETH’S RELEVANT POSTS AT THAT POINT AS WELL AS BEING THE THIRD ONE TO VOTE HIM THE AND THE SECOND ONE TO CASE HIM IN THE SLIGHTEST.

There’s a giant ass part of that wagon that didn’t evaluate him at all

@Apprentice

@Vulgard

wolves like apprentice whose only contribution so far was a couple of aggressive posts and hopping onto my wagon without a second thought

how the hell is my contribution to the game only a couple aggressive posts? Yes I had to leave earlier to work but I’ve been contirbuting as much as I can the ENTIRE time I’vee been here. And it wasn’t “just” a couple aggressive posts, I literally fully cased Seth.

@Apprentice

Vul gets all the credit because he’s a known good player and meanwhile I play nearly as much of a part in it and get scumread for it

@Apprentice

sorry shouldn’t have said that

@Apprentice

How is thoroughly casing a wolf and being one of the first votes on them no impact?

@Apprentice

well was told I can’t ITA myself, so just cloned/PKR probably also gonna check Cecil’s last reads

@Apprentice

because Seth was irrelevant the entire day after being cased by both Vul and myself

@Apprentice

just shoot me if you don’t wanna think about it

I’m never going to clear myself and have zero desire to continue playing this thanks

@Apprentice

Troch should be towncored and PKR is too high that’s all I see at a quick glance

@Apprentice

I mean self-vote and AtE is made in an attempt to save yourself

I’m not trying to

@Apprentice

nah I’m gonna die here anyway no point

@Apprentice

will you shoot me if I shoot you first? you said that was openwolfing right

I really want the fuck out

@Apprentice

I’d rather lose and die right now

then do this shit for however long I have left to live

I’m not going to gamethrow, but ughhhhhh

@Apprentice

Ok but seriously if I’m in the “must shoot” list can I just be cleared first

@Apprentice

ok let’s try openwolfing:

I am wolf

This entire list of post was Apprentice essentially getting angry at not being credited for Surge’s wagon, and stating how he just plans to quit now. This honestly comes to me as mafia who has given up from claiming credit and the game overall since they are essentially the next person in line to die.

I also can’t say that I agree with Apprentice in him being a big part as to why Surge was voted off. From the looks of it, everyone who has played with Surge could tell he was mafia based off his first few posts. And Apprentice himself seemed to get very defensive when PKR felt like too many townies were agreeing too quickly.

And something I remember very well is how someone said that mafia tends to wagon Surge for towncredit since they are obviousmafia. Apprentice’s want for towncred just doesn’t make sense if they were town. They would’ve known how a Surge mafia game is like, and if the information about mafia tending to bus Surge is true, Apprentice should’ve also known that he wasn’t going to get cleared just due to his vote on Surge.

[Universal]

/vote Apprentice @Marshal

This slot is just way too suspicious.

[Marshal]

CountCount

Target	Votes	Voters
an_gorta_pratai	2/9	Centuries, Light
Intensify	1/9	Wazza
Apprentice	5/9	Appelsiini, Vulgard, Luxy, Whysper, Universal
Wazza	2/9	Ash4fun, Thunal33
Not Voting	7	Trochidillae, an_gorta_pratai, Intensify, Thunal33, Sulit, eevee, Apprentice

ITA’ed	ITA user	Result
Leafia	Light, Luxy	Miss, Hit!
Deadbananas0	Yee-Claw	Hit!
ClonedCheese	Applesiini	Hit!
Mist1422	PokemonKidRyan	Hit!
Moleland	Universal, Thunal33, Trochilidae, Centuries	Miss, Miss, Miss, Hit!
Yee-Claw	Deadbananas0, Ash4fun, Apprentice, An_Gorta_pratai	Miss, Miss, Miss, Hit!
PokemonKidRyan	Vulgard, Wazza, Whysper	Miss, Miss, Hit!
Intensify	Mist1422, Sulit	Miss, Miss!
Apprentice	Intensify	Miss!
Not yet ITA’ed	Eevee,

[Thunal33]

Because I don’t actually scumread Intensify, I just didn’t like his read on Seth. Overall I have him null.

[Thunal33]

That does feel like a “give me towncred” strategy, but it kind of fell apart when he was frustrated he was in the PoE. Unfortunately I could see that coming from either town or wolf. You already said the Apprentice is wolf world, so here’s the Apprentice is town world: Apprentice is town who was frustrated that people were suspecting him despite the fact he thinks he should be cleared, so he just decided it would be best for him to die instead of having town spend lots of time figuring out his slot. I actually think that world is just a little more likely.

[ash4fun]

I am having the lazy.

Could someone kick me and tell me to iso app?

[Appelsiini]

@Appelsiini

Cent/Ash/Gorta/Intensify/Luxy/Sulit/App

I forgot Eevee existed by the way. Intensify’s willingness to change his target so easily makes it clear he is never W/W with them, and his unsure reaction to the shot missing feels like V!Intensify

[Appelsiini]

Ash, ISO App now. Right now. Do it you lazy bean.

[ash4fun]

If you don’t think intensify or app is scum,

Who do you think the scumteam is?

or at least what group do you think they’re in?