Yet another Pretender overhaul idea

Feedback/Suggestions
#21

The issue is that if Pretender King doesn’t have an agenda then there is no reason for BD to suspect an agenda due to her possible existence. Since even if the King does turn out to be a Pretender, there isn’t anything BD has to do about that after the fact.

With Fool he’s already dead by the time BD has been tricked.

Scorned has already fulfilled their purpose of making investigatives more sus by winning.

Inquisitor and Merc have non-comparable functions

And Sellsword can’t win before the game ends and is exactly what I am proposing as an alternative to alch wincon

#22

It depends on how easy you find it to be elected. I don’t think it’s really hard if you are town read

#23

But that’s after the fact. The whole point would be to not let it get to that point (similarly to how I never exe on trials unless I’m sure they’re not a fool/people usually let Prince handle obvious fool/evils). The only difference is the King role compared to Merc/Inq. I don’t see why this is any different outside of the King role.

All I know is something has to change with Pret. Its current iteration is a jumbled mess and makes no sense. It’s not even different from a Neutral King, outside of just having less guards, plus it has Princess’s Flirt (and everyone always votes for Pret anyway), making it way too passive and easy of a role. It’s boring.

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#24

That’s just it. Pretender and class idea’s like it are intrinsically tied to the King role. You can’t have an election end in someone being elected but not have the King role get involved at some point, so you are going to have to deal with the fact that a successful Pretender will end up being King at some point.

Unlike with Scorned and Inquisitor this isn’t inherently bad, and unlike with Fool the Pretender is still alive.

So no it’s not after the fact. The Pretender King is DURING the fact. That’s when the Pretender is making her move, she’s in power and now she’s using it and it’s up to the BD to catch that (or think they did if it’s a BD King).

It’s like if Scorned won the second her target is upped. Yeah she convinced people that they were suspicious but how she has to get them to follow through with that and actually execute them.

Sure you’ve became King but so what? Why should BD care about a Pretender King? If she hasn’t outed already why would she not do so now and then be a boring Kingmaker that no one wants when she could be an interesting psudo-EK that potentially no one suspects, and thus acts as a way for elected Kings to be more easily pushed by scum when a Pretender doesn’t spawn.

#25

So… an Evil King?

So… an Evil King but a Neutral? I don’t see how that’s more interesting in any way.
My whole point was that bad things happen WHEN Pret gets elected. That’s what you’re trying to avoid: You don’t want the Pret elected in the first place and doing so intentionally would be as gamethrowing as intentionally upping-and-executing a Fool as BD.

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#26

ok yeah this thing is SUPER busted and the main parts have already been said but this also makes the pretender unfun and difficult to play. part of the reason bd let pretenders live(and that’s only sometimes) is because they can either pretend to be princess really easily and can help them catch evils

why would they let the pretender live if they provide no upside, can turn on them easily, and have these game breaking mechanics(which mostly hinder the bd)? exactly, they wouldn’t, and i’d highly recommend getting rid of rng.

#27

Pretender King is to Evil King as Scorned is to normal scum.

Evils COULD make invests more sus by accusing people. But they don’t do it enough so we have scorned instead.

And so Evils COULD spend a lot of time getting BD’s trust in order to become King. But they don’t often enough so Pretender exists.

#28

Also Scum don’t know about a Pretender King

#29

Like yes, SS wincon as King isn’t the only way to accomplish what I’m saying and probably isn’t even the best. It’s just the easiest. But something that makes BD want to kill Pretender and incentive for Pretender to not want that to happen is needed.

And if she wins the second she is crowned then she won’t care about the BD Killing her.

#30

yeah, i feel like if this was the case then that would be good cause it opens up the possibility to a more scum sided pretender

#31

No because it means she has no reason to try and stop BD from just immediately executing her.

She could just open claim immediately which would defeat the point

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#32

bd sometimes already want to immediately exe her?

like if they have no better leads and she claims pretender day 1 or day 2 then they might just go neuts out

#33

Yes but they aren’t incentived to do so. If they were then we wouldn’t have this problem in the first place.

#34

Pretender and Pretender King should be considered scummy claims. Not like Alchemist where no one cares.