Analyzing the D2 King Whisper Meta (Again)

TL;DR - Encourage the D2 Whisper King Meta if you think scum need a buff

I’m getting deja vu writing this opinion piece up a 2nd time one year later than the first, but with so many changes and differences of opinion I think it is time to revisit the D2 claim to king meta that players have so openly embraced again.

If you have played ToL recently, you’ll notice that the king will guard themselves N1 and ask for claims D2. Even without asking for claims, many players will immediately whisper him their class regardless. Let’s dive into WHY players are doing this and compare the advantages to disadvantages of such a strategy.

The #1 reason people claim to the king D2 isn’t necessarily because they believe it is a viable strategy. It’s mostly because they themselves do not want to be voted up in front of the court because they refused to claim. BD and scum are both as likely to refuse claiming to the king - I’ve seen more BD get hanged than scum for waiting to claim on the stand. Claiming to the king is like a positive reinforcement loop - the more players who claim, the more suspicious the ones that do not claim stand out. If only 4 players claimed to the king, deciding to vote somebody up randomly for their claim suddenly doesn’t make sense. Because 80% of players whisper claim to the king, that only leaves 2-5 players who did not claim to pick on. When more and more players claim to the king, it becomes incredibly risky for you to NOT claim to the king. If very few claim, then there is far less risk.

Whether or not players think the king whisper strategy is effective or not, the main motivation for claiming is self-survival. Fear is what drives people to claim because players know they are expected to. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Advantages of D2 Whisper Meta:

  • Scum are less likely to claim unique classes. Scum are almost always outed if they claim a unique class when a unique BD class has already whispered their role to the king.

  • It reveals scum who have claimed impossible classes. For example, an assassin who has claimed Physician when 3 actual BD Physicians have already claimed. While this does not specify who scum is, it gives a reliable lynching pool to choose from and puts suspicion on all those players.

  • It forces scum to commit to their fakeclaim for the rest of the game instead of deciding to change their claim partway through the game based on changing scenarios.

Disadvantages of D2 Whisper Meta:

  • If a Noble is converted at any point in the game, the Cult and Unseen has a huge amount of information while BD is kept in the dark.

  • Possessors can hear your claim with puppet strings.

  • You’re whispering all of your claims to the Evil King who then uses Allies to whisper all of those claims to the Cult/Unseen and deletes his logbook in case he dies.

  • If the good king dies, everybody’s claims are out in the open. King is especially vulnerable in Reaper games.

  • Players rely on the king to make good decisions based on the information the king is given. If a good decision is not made, players commonly mis-lynch the Good King the next day.

  • Kings can get a player up to the stand simply by voting for them. Players sheep king accusations incredibly hard. Anecdotally, I’ve seen Evil Kings simply accuse the Prince and watch all of BD and scum vote up the Prince instantly for a quick Decide Fate Execute. Certainly a worthy trade for the EK as BD have to waste their next day lynching the EK.

  • Focusing on the king distracts BD from scumreading and actually searching for scum.

The advantages here are not enough to outweigh the risks of the disadvantages. Scum are not always claiming a 4th class every game and scum are not always claiming unique classes to the king. The fact they have to commit to their claim is a good advantage, but this can be useless if they weren’t planning on ever changing it or never NEEDS to change it. The whisper meta isn’t giving a 100% guarantee of lynching a scum on D2. Even with all that info, a Good King can still be unsure of who to push. If only scum refused to claim to the king, this strategy would be perfect, but this is not the case. Indeed, those who refuse to claim to the king are more often BD in my own experience.

Players view the D2:KWM as an “active” strategy as opposed to not acquiring claims and doing your own scumreading and night investigations. I agree that this is truly an active strategy - actively giving enemies the information that they need to make informed and devastating night abilities.

If you’re in a game and notice that the Unseen/Cult killed two Physicians or Sheriffs/Paladins in a single night and think, “Wow, that was unlucky” - it wasn’t lucky or unlucky. They died to the whisper meta.

Pro tip while we’re here: anybody who only contributes to the conversation by screaming “EK king” is scum.

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So do we need to nerf it again or we just have to talk common sense into people?

I’m trying to do your 2nd suggestion right now

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Ngl even with this peope will still do it as they think it helps them even with the points you stated.

I don’t do it but others will.

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Wait just a crazy thought what if we had a bounty hunter type of class that hunts a specific class. Kind of like inquisitor

It would only be able to kill one type of class so evils fake claiming it would be spared and it punishes Mass claiming to the king :thinking:

If could even have a single whisper scout thing that sees all whispers the player sends out.

I feel like you’re missing the biggest advantage of claiming to the King. A skilled king doesn’t simply take claims and up non-claimers and 3rd/4th of a class. They use what claims they have to gather evidence on suspicious claims and non-claimers. I can’t tell you the number of times of told an alchemist to bomb a butler and said butler to party and seen an invoker/sellsword corpse turn up. If you’re a skilled King you’re going to win nine times out of ten if you can get the court to cooperate.

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Honestly there should be some sort of broadcast about “Whisper King” Meta with Devs/Mods.
Like this an issue for a while. Even though it isn’t that powerful like it was in past but still an experienced player who rolled GK can still screw up with Evils if they aren’t that good enough.

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Condition #1

Condition #2

Bounty Hunter

Passive-Hatred-You shall know the class you are hunting during D1. You are immune to death. (You can’t get unique classes and you are always hunting a BD. If they get converted you can still kill them and win, they will always spawn at least one of the class you are hunting.
Day Ability-Hunting-Set a “scout” on a player to see all their whispers for the rest of the day. You can’t change this for the rest of the day-Unlimited Uses
Night Ability-Track-Track a player seeing if they are the same class type of the player you are hunting.
Night Ability 2-Attack-Attack a player, if they are the class you are hunting you will kill them-3 uses (must use track on them first)

It sounds like you know how to play King and that’s great. But you’re projecting what you think should be done and what is most optimal

But it’s silly to believe every king is going to act the same way at the same level of competence.

One good way to make WKM stop is to make it’s downsides more clear through design.

For example if you let Possessor puppet strings the king then it goes from “Maybe Poss will get your claim” to “Poss will DEFINITELY get all claims to King” which is 33% of games. Another 33% have a Reaper that puts everyone’s claims out into the open. And that just leaves the Sorcerer who has CoD.

If it worked for Prince Meta then it should be enough for King meta

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Another buff:Make possessor gain the chat history of the possessed person.

No more codes.

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How would that work?

Genius.

In a separate tab.

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I would prefer if Possessor would jump into the King, they would become Psycho King.
Or if he possessed the King, he would get access to private notes since basically everyone is storing their claim list.

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That would be fun as well, but I think it would be a nice buff to see a players chat history, so they can’t use codes.

Psycho king would be fun

Not private notes. Remember that is the equivalent of pen and paper IRL

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@Pige0n is right. A skilled Good King can get some serious work done with the meta. People refusing to cooperate is a problem with those particular players and not with the meta itself. And of course you judge King’s faction based on how he deals with the information he’s given. You said it wasn’t a coincidence both Sheriffs were killed N2 - Well, if you think that proves King is evil, hang him.

But that’s no fun at the same time if the is king doing everything.

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