I try my best as Alchemist to help but every game a Prince kills me in jail or the table goes “NEUTS OUT” and kills me.
It’s an incredibly frustrating role to play.
I think every other Neutral role is interesting.
Lying in Throne of Lies? How disgusting for you to suggest that.
4 Likes
What do you claim then? If you claim Phys or something else they can see you’re not BD and you’re lying.
If you think someone is obs then you can always just kill them. What you want to do is:
A) Make a defense pact with the king.
B) Kill any observers.
C) Claim phys and play the part.
1 Like
My problem with Alchemist isn’t so much the win rate, but how you win or lose.
Basically you have 2 options:
1: Claim Alchemist.
2: Lie.
Option 1: You are now fully at the Mercy of BD. You’ve basically taken the game out of your own hands and into someone elses and asked nicely to win. And when you win, you didn’t win because you outsmarted anyone, you didn’t win because you played well, you didn’t win due to any plays you made… you won because someone else allowed you to do so.
Option 2: Lie. Okay, well… If the King checks you? You’re dead. If you claim Phys and then 2 actual Phys die? You’re dead. One Phys died and the other counter claims you? Dead. If you claim anything else and can’t back it up with a good journal? Dead. You don’t get any evil versions of abilities like converted Unseen, nor do you have anyone to plot with and help your claims. The only possible ability that can confirm you is your heal, but again, if you claim Phys and someone gets poisoned? Yea, you’re dead.
Hell, just when it gets down to the wire you’re often dead because both BD and Unseen/Cult are happy to lynch you since you have nothing to confirm with and very little ways to fake other roles. When unseen/cult get to that critical point where they just have to dodge getting one of them executed for 1 or 2 more days to win, they’ll throw you right under the bus because the BD love killing neutrals, and that’s one more day they don’t have to worry about getting one of them lynched.
So, typically when you win by lying it’s because you were lucky enough not to get checked and the game moved quickly enough that you slid under the radar. Which again means you won not on your own merits, but because BD was kicking so much ass they never needed to really look into you, or Unseen murdered BD so quickly they never had a chance. And if it’s a cult game? Good fucking luck surviving one of those, there are so many days you’re getting executed at some point for sure.
That’s what bothers me about Alchemist. A balanced Win rate doesn’t mean a class is good, if you had a class that literally flipped a coin Night 1 and then won on heads and lost on tails it would have a 50% win rate but it would be a shitty class.
Alchemist does have some agency and every now and then you can make plays as an alchemist to speed up the game but in general, you’re playing a game that is mostly out of your hands.
3 Likes
So make a pact with the King or something
Now you only need to convince one person instead of the whole town
1 Like
I always just poison relatively quiet people. Kill Prince? Great job! Kill cult? Great job! Hit immune? Great job!
You can’t go wrong with killing indiscriminately as alch. 
3 Likes
If nobody is yelling neuts out I make a pact with the king that I will be on his side whether he is good neutral or evil. That I will heal him every night unless he says otherwise, and I remind him I have two emerald potions at his disposal. A king loves hearing that he can silently kill off two people that he wants during the game without having to execute them, just by whispering to you.
If people are yelling neuts out, I give the first two that yell it an emerald potion and then stay quiet and usually the rest of the BD get killed or executed and I vote with whoever has majority at the end of the game.
The moral of the story is the starting king is either your best friend or your worst enemy
Well said EvadableMoxie.
Again, you’re taking the game out of your own hands by allying with the King. Maybe he lets you live. Maybe he throws you to the wolves because BD is getting restless about him not finding any unseen and stating you’re not an ally and letting you burn helps his cause. Maybe he’s worried about the Reaper/Poessessor and decides to kill you just to make sure you aren’t fake claiming. Either way, you didn’t win or lose by cleverness or good gameplay. You won or lost because the King made a decision to keep you around or kill you all on his own.
If I were king and someone whispered me saying they were alch I would get them prince executed on the spot. Don’t want to risk leaving a reaper, scorned, fool, or poss on the field.
Alch has it bad because all other neuts are negative to BD so statistically better to just off the alch every time.
2 Likes
I don’t agree or disagree with this behavior but I believe it cements the point I was originally making.
The current state of the game has most people that I’ve come across to say “NEUTS OUT” and kill them on the spot.
People suggesting to make a pact with the king, it’s a bandaid to the problem and it doesn’t work 100% of the time.
Alch, and to a lesser extent, neutrals in general, need a lot of love in the current state of the game.
Even as BD it sucks when my team kills an Alch because of this mentaility and we lose somebody late game because we don’t have a heal, but they just can’t risk posessor/scorned/reapers/fools interfering with the game.
“If the king checks you, you are dead”
The king only has 4 uses of ability, so act normal enough and he won’t waste one on you.
In fact, this is the exact same with sheriff and the unseen…
No, the way to survive is:
- avoid the king’s allies ability (4 uses), possibly by killing them
- avoid observer’s window peak (2 uses)
- use stone skin as you think you will be attacked
both the king and observer have few uses, so just act not suspicious and they won’t waste time on you. Alternatively, murder them.
The best way to play alchemist is to claim it before somone ask.
usually im just wishpering the king on day 1 and tell him im healing him the whole game.
Somtimes they even tell me to kill somone and prove my loyalty
Say it on town chat is also very good, because no evil players will want you dead.
As a Prince, I tend not to kill a proved alchemist players for the simple reason: alchemists can not be converted, they are wasting convert chances for evil players and can help you just execute every convertable players left
That’s a great way for a possessor or reaper to run train on everyone while BD thinks you’re throwing heals. That’s why I say “statistically speaking” it’s better to just kill them.