Blue Dragon king shouldn't have ANY investigative powers

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

At the moment, you either get an evil in the first 4 nights or get killed because you’re evil. Why is the King of the kingdom the one who has to prove himself to everyone in the first few days or die?

Evil King - I am forced to find a member of my own team and get them killed. If I try to get a neutral killed, it can just turn out to be a Blue Dragon, in which case I die myself because I was wrong. But now that everyone thinks I’m good, I’m going to get killed by my own allies.

Neutral King - I am forced to join the Blue Dragon’s side. If I try to remain neutral, I’ll just get called an evil king and get executed. So It’s basically Blue Dragon king, but I also have to survive to the end of the game.

His investigative results also promotes the awful “Kill all neutrals” game play, since you only see if people are not allies, making it worth it to just kill all neutrals (The fool isn’t enough to stop this behaviour).

The visits should also be immune to observer, to avoid them instantly knowing the king isn’t Blue dragon (If it isn’t already)

8 Likes
#2

Actually, I wouldn’t be against this

#3

Well, getting an evil king is just a bonus for unseen or cult, so why would u make it OP?

You start with one extra bad guy, and your maximum is always one more, and the blue dragon lose the king as an investigator

It does make sense that you can find the evil king because of the way he behave/checks, don’t forget that sherrifs can’t checks him, prince can’t lock him, and observer can just look who he checks.

#4

If you are an evil king and you point at another evil and get them hung when knowing they are evil you are game throwing apparently … ( unless you have asked their permission first )

#5

Bad way of thinking. King, as far as we know, is a 33% chance for everyone. He is no more “just a bonus” to the unseen than he is to the Blue dragon. So why is the Blue dragon one so OP?

Also, this screws over the neutral king, because, as I said above, he is forced to side with the BD, risking getting killed by the cult/unseen, all why having to survive to the end of the game.

Also makes Neutrals instant kills. Without the BD King, Only the observer would be able to find neutrals.

#6

He is bonus because 12 or 13 doesnt make alot of different as 4 bad guys instead of 3

And every class supposed to act good in the begining, just until there is a majority of evil

#7

Personally, I wouldnt be against this suggestion since I could act as a Blue Dragon King with no invests while finding neutrals as a Evil King and whispering them via Psychic.

#8

16 players total, 2 unseen, up to 4 neutrals, meaning it’s 10 to 12. The king is a huge benefit to the blue dragons. They already have the numbers. I’m finding that blue dragon wins FAR more often than evils now.

There is a difference between acting good and actually being good. If I actively try to get unseen killed, over just voting to exe on unseen, there is a difference. Since everyone knows you are able to get definitive proof that people are allies or not, they won’t accept anything other than this proof.

#9

There is always the possablety of outing BD as Evil king after a few nights.

#10

Just get rid of King’s invest powers completely and increase the spawn-rate of real invest classes/add new invest classes. Having everyone rely on the King for info EVERY single game gets stale. The whole point about this type of game is that every game is totally different, but since the King got invest powers all early-games seem depressingly similar.

3 Likes
#11

Don’t forget that the Ally ability was added to solve a problem (the lack of impact the starting king had). If you have a better solution then please post it here.

1 Like
#12

I think Blue Dragon’s King should have something replace Ally.
Ally is much too powerful for a BD king, and forces a meta where Neutral and Evils must out their own allies to survive.

A new ability that isn’t confirmable in any way.

Hmm…any ideas?

2 Likes
#13

What about:
[4 uses] Allies - Select two players, then:

  • If Good King - If either is BD, get a message that says that “At least 1 of X and Y is allied with BD”.
  • If Neut King - Get the team of both players that were selected. [This makes neut king extremely powerful.]
  • If Bad King - If either is evil, get a message that says that “At least 1 of X and Y is allied with [evil team]”.

This way it isn’t instantly confirmable. This does give a horrible case where a good king hits both evils the first night, which is likely a quick loss for the evils.

#14

Nah

Honestly BD King should be fine without Allies, but there’s a bunch of ideas for replacement abilities you could use

Off of the top of my head, for example, they could choose a successor when they die, adding more reasons to persuade the King you’re good

idk man thought of that in two seconds

#15

I feel that cult and unseen are getting better and better in regards to of the king is evil or not. Early in the game the evil king has to ping an evil target to make sure BD knows he’s a good guy. I jave seen time and time again the king targeting a scorned target n1 getting the unseen/cult ping hamging thay guy only to find that he is BD then the next day the king gets poisoned by butler or hung ASAP.

I think it’s all in the way you play. As king. As evil you skirt the line of tricking unseen and cult into believing your BD and they poison/kill you. It’s probably the hardest role besides MM and CL to win consistently because people don’t fully understand the ins and outs of the game. And others are not confident in a leading role to make an impact

#16

Well one thing to keep in mind, surviving to the end of the game, is not a requirement for evil king. If the priest or prince hits trial, decide fate the sucker, Your job is just to maximize the unseen/cults chances of winning.

Of which, yeah I’d say if anything outing an assasain or converted early game is good, in a way it’s actually borderline beneficial for the unseen to lose anyone but the MM in the early days (1 conversion and 1 kill = 2 BD out of the way).

2 Likes
#17

I take it as a personal challenge to do everything In my power to play the best evil king without getting hung. Getting to end game and having it end with me still alive is like sweet climax.

#18

Personal challanges are all well and good, but they have no place in answering the question of is a role too weak.

1 Like
#19

Ok then in stating that BD king should not have investigative powers I’m 100% sire that that would lead to BD kings getting killed a lot more then evil or even neutral kings. Taking away investigation from any king role is damning them go get hung for not providing any relevant info. The way it’s perceived in the game imo is that the king needs to either take all of the information thrown at him and carry/sabotage the game. Or get lucky as hell in regards to the inves checks he gets. Because I bet if by n4 the king as done nothing he gets strung up. Taking abilities away shortens their lifespans considerably

#20

well 50/50 on that, people hang the king, because they know he has investigative abilities, so it’s suspicious that he didn’t provide investigation results. It wouldn’t be suspicious for him not to have investigative results, if he wasn’t expected to have them.

that being said mechanically in raw numbers, 66% chance of not being BD, is obviously considerably higher risk than anyone else, meanwhile with royal blood, you eliminate the 2 starting unseen/cult, all neutrals, so you are looking at effectively a 90% chance of a BD king day 3.

So yeah that certainly is a factor to worry about, simple math says always kill the king day 2.