But seriously. Drunk is just better

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#1

Let’s take a look at the 2 BD offensive classes.

1: Drunk
2: Butler

The Drunk does 2 thing’s. Makes someone target him (while being immune to thier attacks/conversions) And can Occupy someone through immunitys while also making night Immune classes vulnerable that night.

Butler can do 3 things. Stop someone from doing any action (Occupy). Occupy visitors and Poison the king.

First lets look at thier primary Ability’s. Effects on various class types.

Butler:

Invest - they lose a night. Too bad no info for you. This hurts BD

Support - they don’t get to help anyone. Always hurts BD.

Killer - You can save a knight from CSing BD I guess.

Drunk:

Invest - They clear you and depending on what they were doing they can give you even more info. Including that they were Princess if they tried to wisp. They still get info (possablely more) Pro BD.

Support - heals you. The big targets are likely known to be guarded but now you are so someone attacking you will fail. Not quite pro BD but not that bad either.

Killer - You might make a Knight die from CSing you. The only worse outcome.

There is also the fact that if you Deb a non OCC immune killer you will know 100% that you did.

Now let’s look at thier secondary ability:

Butler: His Ability is useful in 1 situation only - When he is attacked by the primary faction or a Reaper. In all other situations it doesn’t help for the reasons listed above.

Drunk: HH is the best offensive Ability in the game by far. You can work with a Knight to kill an NK/MM. You can clutch stop an NK or MM kill/convert. You can stop an assassin or CL kill/convert even if they were occed 3 times earlier and in a cult game it proves you as not converted!

The only thing the butler has on the drunk is poison. And the drunk beats that with royalty being better.

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#2

I think the only change that they should make is make butler’s poison work within one day. It cannot even be used early game. Any decent starting evil king will have gained numbers by day 6 in my experience. This should be THE trump card of the butler. On top of all that the butler suicides, if it was misused. This also promotes evil kings to be more proactive for once. Too many games happen where evil kings sit back, do nothing and win the game. I think the balance besides that is fairly well done between Drunk/Butlers. If another change is in order, have the skill “party” notify you when you are visited while using it. Not who visits you, but just the fact that you have been visited.

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#3

I think both of the changes you suggested should be added. However I would like to add that the Butler’s poison should still LOOK the same as the assassins. Just have the text say “you will die in 1 or 2 days”. The suggested party change is good and could even say the number like the ToS vet

1 Like
#4

I think it depends on the enemy faction, I agree that Drunk is better than butler on unseen games, but I think the butler is better in Cult games. First, party works against conversions as well as attacks by the cult leader which makes it a more reliable defensive ability, while Drunk’s happy hour is not as useful against the cult unless they have an invoker. Second, his poison ability is way better in cult games since it basically confirms the butler to the king, while in unseen games the assassin can poison as well.

#5

It used to be closer when the Drunk died for debauching killers, but now that they don’t it is generally a better ability than Serve.

Drunk can even do what Butler can twice a game… only better.

The only real edge Butler has is he can protect himself from Assassins/eradicates with party.

#6

I think, in unseen games, drunk is the best class. he can find mm (occupy immune), reaper and assasin, also the only class besides prince that can stop mm from converting.

For me, the butler poision is kinda useless, now when alch can heal it, and every alch sides with king, evil or good.
the poision should be able to get healed only by physician, this way bd have an option to kill the king without losing a day like unseen/NK have the option.

#7

Disagree with this heartily. Wining or debbing the enemy CL protects the butler/drunk just as easily as party does, except debbing 50/50 confirms that the target is CL. Happy hour is great in cult games as it confirms you 100% to any one person. Butler is also THE fake claim for invokers, which make up a great portion of cult, since killer classes are still converted to it, effectively weakening the class as a whole. In Unseen games the butler can still prove he is either butler or assassin by whisping someone confirmed BD that he’ll poison and then poisoning king.

For me personally Drunk always has a little edge over Butler against both factions. But I like to lead the court and Drunk can step up with royal blood, so I’m biased a little bit.

1 Like
#8

Agreed, nightshade wine should be able to affect anyone(though you will still kill both yourself and your target if your target was BD).

Only if the same change is made to assassin’s nightshade.

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#9

Btw, butler have the party, which is better then HH somtimes since u can’t get killed, and can’t get converted in cult games.

#10

Actually I’d be super ok with letting Nightshade Wine target anybody. Just give it two uses.

3 Likes
#11

What people are forgetting about party is 2 things.A-It doesn’t stop Occupy immune classes(MM/Sorcerer/Possessor)and B-Doesn’t actually give you immunity to anything.(Convert/Death)(So if CL is immune form being occupied 3 times in a row then butler does jack shit against it)
With that out of the way Drunk is by far the superior class. It just does the job better.
Not much else to say other then that. If you have a way that butler is better I would love to hear it but right now I’m pretty sure drunk is better. Drunk is better in that it has royal blood and does the offensive role better.Also its HH is better in the same scenario party should be good.Lets say you just got the last assassin.Right now its you,the butler,a hunter,and a possessor.Well fuck you possessor wins as all he has to do is kill you.Now same scenario except your a drunk.You HH him and then you and the hunter vote up the possessor for an easy win.Now the one thing butler has is POISON. What does this amazing ability do?Well at D4 D fucking 4 at the earliest you can poison the king.WOW that’s amazing! Now how long does it take for the king to die from this poison? Well just 3 days. Seriously fucking useless as hell in that having the king die D7 from poison is fucking ridiculous.(I say D7 because poison cant be used first 3 days which includes D3 so D4 + 2 nights of poison=D7 at most.) Right now butler needs some love as he is literally just a worse version of the drunk as burrito proved.

1 Like
#12

Bad example. Hunter can clutch win this with wolf or bear depending on how the Possessor goes about it.

#13

Fair enough doesn’t change the fact that possessor could just jump to you. So no the wolf/bear does not matter.Its just an example showing how when butler’s party is supposed to be a savior it does absolutely nothing to stop the kill.

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#14

I’d just use a second butler as the example (if you though 1 was useless then not even 2 of them is enough) and move on. BTW even if the Possessor does that it just becomes a 50/50 assuming Hunter has at least 1 wolf and exactly 1 bear (Better odds if he has more)

#15

Fair point.I concede.Point is butler is shit compared to drunk which is what I was trying to get across.

1 Like
#16

Yes. The real moral of the story is Hunter and Drunk are amazing and the Butler is just a sad buttface in comparison.

1 Like
#17

Yeah yeah buff the wine

1 Like
#18

Honestly though, Nightshade Wine should kill the King in one night, and Butler should be able to use it starting from Day 2

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#19

Maybe not both of those. Day 3?

1 Like
#20

I’d love that, but I don’t think there’s a high likelihood of the starting King being able to die that soon.

Still, I’d like D3 I guess.