Here is a guide to trolling as prince:
- jail everyone who claims poisoned/bleeding for two nights.
- when no one is poisoned/bleeding, jail confirmed BD.
- at end game, kill the person you think is most likely BD
should we change prince’s abilities too?
Please re-read what I said, as your responses seem to indicate that you didn’t.
I don’t think you seem to get it. If you make swaps entirely at random then you are more likely to help than hurt.
Unfortunately, the one who doesn’t seem to get it is you. The point is that the Court Wizard’s powers are extremely easy to abuse, and considerably easier to abuse than any other Blue Dragon class. This wouldn’t matter if not for the fact that they are, again, a Blue Dragon class.
Also, statistically speaking, swapping at random will become progressively worse for BD as time goes on, as it makes it more likely that a Knight accidentally hits a BD or that otherwise intelligent uses of abilities become misfires or wastes.
Once again, prince can also be easily abused. You say that CW can swap poisoned/bleeding people to prevent their healing, but prince can do that too, just jailing them. SHould we remove prince?
- Did you read my post? You occupy the physician so they can’t heal anemone who claimed poisoned/bleeding
- So he just executed n3. Doesn’t reduce his trolling
- DID YOU NOT READ MY POST? He jails people who claimed poisoned/bleeding for two times (within the three limit) and they die
- The odds of being good king do not matter. Just because you have a low chance of being good king does not mean you can’t troll once you are one.
- You do not have to do any of that. Often, court is dumb and just votes him up, and then you can force execute
as is a CW who griefs. What is your point?
- Most hunters survive to n3 (especially if they use bears)
- If the court is being stupid, then all the alchs might have died
- Even if there is a phys, you are distracting them from healing an important person like the sheriff, pala, or prince.
- I forgot to add this one: You could just play like a fool so you can sue retribution (people do this on all the time)
Here is a complete guide to griefing as hunter:
- Convince the court of #NeutsOut so all alchs. Unseen can take care of physicians (or if cult game you can just say they are probably converted)
- wolf some confirmed people (I don’t see why you said anything about king, he has the smallest chance of being good anyway)
- Convince the court to do VFR but refuse to claim yourself
- say “lolololol” as you kill your first accuser
Here. You’re still not reading my post correctly, so let me bold-face something important:
Furthermore, nothing about occupying a BD inherently increases their risk of getting killed
Do you see how this is not the same thing? I’m not talking about occupying someone to prevent someone else from being healed. I am talking about the fact that the person you target is not at any greater of a risk of getting killed. If they were about to be targeted, they’re still dead. If they weren’t, they’re still not dead. In fact, referring specifically to occupy, you used to be able to occupy someone as much as you wanted. That was changed, and while I’m not a dev, I can almost guarantee it was - in whole or in part - changed to combat using the ability to grief. On the contrary, using Tornado to swap someone who was not making a random decision almost always increases the risk of something bad happening: an Investigative class hits someone they already hit, a Knight now hits a BD target with Cold Steel and dies, a healer can’t heal a person who needs it, and so on.
Every single example you’ve given has some combination of: restrictions on when it can be used, a limited number of uses, requires luck, requires knowledge gleaned from other players, requires a second day, or requires manipulation of other players. Court Wizard requires absolutely no restrictions or requirements whatsoever to grief. These are not even remotely the same thing, and there is no way you can argue that this is coincidental.
All I’m saying is that I would like the class - or even just Tornado - to be changed in such a way to where you can’t just decide to be a jerk from Day 1 and completely ruin a game. Play enough team-based multiplayer games and you will see that either very particular measures have been taken to counteract griefing, or else they need to because griefing is a problem.
We should not be balencing around trolls. There are plenty of ways to troll without even using role spacific abilitys.
Tornado does not increase the chances of a BAD dying for 2 reasons.
A: The Unseen/cult/NK is actively trying to attack important BD like Prince and Psychic.
B: The Unseen/Cult/NK will never attack themselves
If you swap 2 people at random then the chance of an Unseen/Cult being attacked by self goes up from 0% to >0%. That increase needs to take away from somewhere and the only thing to take away from is the BD and Neuts. Add that to the fact that Unseen/Cult are less likely to attack Neuts anyway and they also have the best chance of finding them that means that swapping makes BD disproportionately less likely to be attacked.
Ex: Someone accuses someone of being unseen but the accused person is pardoned. The accuser is either A: Telling the truth and might be attacked/converted or B: Lying and definitely won’t be attacked by Unseen/Cilt because they know that. Either way swapping them means a Neutral is likely to be attacked rather than a BD.
Given than converted invests can make situations like this happen even while you don’t know about it you should always swap someone.
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Nothing about switching people’s places randomly inherently increases your chance of getting killed
CW also has restrictions, based on what you consider restrictions. The most obvious is when you said “hunter can’t attack king.” Well, CW can’t switch king.
Further restrictions on CW that hunter does not have:
-Can be occupied
-cannot directly kill
-cannot prove itself to court (ritualist, sage)
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So troll then. Got it.
Speaking of balance, I’m genuinely curious as to what the win rate for CW currently is. It’s also kind of a quality of life adjustment, though, in the same way that changing the occupy rules was sort of both.
-whistles-
This seems like game throwing and is definitely something that I would report.