{Class Suggestion}(actually a good one) Bounty Hunter

{Edited with new suggestions}

Bounty Hunter
This class should play as a fun hunter-killer class that will initially be harmful to BD in the same fashion as scorned and fool. At the beginning of the game, the bounty hunter will be given two targets that are always initially non-unique BD classes. The targets can be of the same BD class, however that might make it too easy for the bounty hunter. The system message given to the bounty hunter at the start of the game would be something like “Your two targets are a Princess and a Butler.” The targets are two specific players in the game, so the bounty hunter has to be careful with killing Princess/Butler claims on sight. Additionally, if one of the targets is converted, they still remain a target to the bounty hunter, so he might have to do some further deduction.

Class type:
Neutral Investigative (Unique)
{Edited from Neutral Killer}

Win Goal: Personally kill one of your two bounties at night. Bounty Hunter is given the classes but not the identities. Both targets begin as BD. Cannot include Prince or Hunter.
{Edited to be more detailed}

{Edited to remove a passive that gave night immunity}

Passive 1:
New Job: If both of your targets die before N?, you will be randomly assigned one last living target (with the same requirements above).
{Edited to change New Job from a class change into a Mercenary}

Day Ability 1: 2 charges
Preparation: Hide from all visitors tonight.
{Edited to remove pierce through night immunity for Hunt}

Night Ability 1: infinite charges
Stakeout: If selected player leaves their room tonight, you find out their class type.
{Edited name of ability from “Interrogate”}

Night Ability 2: 3 charges
Hunt: Attack the target. This attack cannot be redirected.
{Edited to remove consequence of attacking an incorrect target, and added immunity to target changing}

{Considerations with edits}
I’m also toying with the idea of letting the targets know at the beginning of the game that there is a Bounty Hunter after them in a system message, but that may be too revealing for the Bounty Hunter.
Also considering if there must be two people of the two classes that are the Bounty Hunter’s target, so he does not immediately go after one once they are outed (though he probably still will). And hence considering bringing down his Hunt charges to 2 so he only gets one “second chance.” And if he blows both charges, he commits suicide to prevent waiting just to trigger New Job.
I also still want to include some form of compensation for both targets dying with New Job, as I still disagree with the whole “tough luck” idea that pertains to Scorned. For example, Mercenary gets his own “new job” if he fails to protect his one target with four charges of visit prevention. But obviously a late-game New Job trigger, say N6, would make finding the last target very easy for the Bounty Hunter, so maybe the last night for New Job to trigger should be N3. But I still haven’t decided, so I left the last night as N? above.

First of all, I’m giving so many comments/constructive criticisms because I do think this is a good idea with a lot of potential. The concept strikes me as fun, unique, and adding a new but not game-changing twist to the game. However, I also feel that this can be much more streamlined, with changes that would eliminate at least 3 of the proposed abilities.

This is a great Neutral goal. I’m tempted to make it so that you need to kill two out of three targets or something, because as it stands it doesn’t seem particularly challenging. However, that easiness would potentially be solved by removing the unblockable attack of On the Hunt and it could stay at 1 out of 2.

I don’t see why you would need to be careful about this - even if two Butlers spawn, you’ve still got a 50/50 shot.

I think this is unnecessary and that we should avoid death immunity as much as possible. Should the Fool be death immune n1? The Scorned? Dying early is part of the game - someone’s got to do it.

This is too much of a handicap and should be removed. If both your targets die, you should just die too, like the Scorned. Otherwise, there’s no consequence for your failure as this class.

I like the idea of a consequence, but because Hunt is already a limited use ability, the consequence of a mistake is that you have one fewer chance to win. Also, the threat of another BD dying the next night would give BD more urgency to stop the Bounty Hunter. Perhaps we can split the difference here somehow.

I’m uncomfrotable with this piercing effect as it currently stands - I just feel that something is missing. Perhaps what I’m worried about is a predictable situation where your target is an Investigative class, they out an Unseen, and you unstoppable kill them that night. I’d predict this would account for at least 60% of Bounty Hunter victories. There should be more deduction and persuading (Protection roles to go on someone else, etc.) than this.

I think this would be too revealing, yes.

This is good.

I get what you mean here and now I do think it best to remove the kill through immunity part of On the Hunt. However, just like the other neutrals Alchemist, Fool, and Scorned, Bounty Hunter definitely needs some kind of self protection, which where is your

argument doesn’t wholly hold water, as all neutrals do have some form of self-protection in order to stay alive to complete their personal objective. The BD objective is communal, so the “Dying early” job is meant for them. And so I think On the Hunt should just give visit prevention that night and be boosted to 2 or 3 charges, while the Always Prepared passive is scrapped.

There’s actually a significant difference between Scorned and Bounty Hunter regarding this. If Scorned is lucky, he can just sit back on his night immunity and BD will execute one of his targets without a single TB used. In Bounty Hunter’s case, he has to first figure out his targets, then personally kill one, before he becomes so unlucky that they both die before he gets to one. And it’s not necessarily “failure,” as you called it, if you did all you could to get information before being struck with this misfortune. Scorned knows what’s going on from the get-go. And so as Bounty Hunter has the risk of being a lot “unluckier” than Scorned, then I think Bounty Hunter should have some kind of compensation for that misfortune. It could even be as simple as being assigned a third, final target if you don’t like the class change into Mercenary.

Well my specific reasoning behind limiting charges of Bounty Hunter’s kill ability is to prevent him from becoming a pseudo-NK, for example Alchemist only has two kill charges. If Bounty Hunter were to have more charges, he could just yolokill every opportunity hoping to hit one of his targets before someone else does. Bounty Hunter is supposed to be played as combined info-gathering and targeted-killing. Which segways into your comment about urgency - BD are not supposed to have any more urgency over a Bounty Hunter as they do a Scorned; again, Bounty Hunter is not meant to be as threatening as an NK, so I don’t think a sense of urgency to get rid of him should be critical.
If you want to enforce the idea of “running out of chances” for Bounty Hunter, then I’d be down for removing the occupation effect, but I still think there should be more of a deterrent to Bounty Hunter’s kill potentional, such as dropping the Hunt charges down to two.

Thank you so much for your considerations by the way, it means a lot. When I first saw the Psycho King idea spinning of these forums, I honestly thought it was pretty dumb and shouldn’t be implemented. But now Psycho King accounts for all 2 of my Reaper wins, so I’ve been inspired to put some quality class ideas on here.
On a side note, should I edit the OP to reflect new changes, or just let them stay in these comments?

You’ve been Psycho King twice? How did you get yourself elected? Teach me your ways.

Also, yes, edit the OP and make a note about what you changed in the OP.

I disagree. I’ve had plenty of games as Scorned where both my targets have died quite early. That’s why Scorned plays tend to happen early. It makes some sense for Scorned to have night immunity, since they will be claiming an investigative or other finding-type role, which makes them a target. Bounty Hunter is much less likely to make himself look like a juicy kill for Evils.

  • I still disagree about night immunity. A 1/7 chance to die n1 is not high enough to justify having to essentially get killed twice, especially since you are more dangerous to BD than Scorned or Fool anyway.

  • Yes, making On the Hunt only give visit prevention to the Bounty Hunter the night they attack is OK, but this would also be a missed opportunity to have the Drunk or Butler matter. They should have to deduce as well, and once they figure out who the Bounty Hunter is, they should be able to impact the game. However, I’m open to making Bounty Hunter occupy immune - just depends on whether we are ok with Butler staying more or less irrelevant.

Yes, this would be good: Drop Hunt down to 2 charges, remove the consequence of hitting the wrong target, and make the Hunt attack un-redirectable but doesn’t go through any immunities or protection.

Yes, this is the balance we would need to strike.


Here are some of my proposals, but a slightly different but much more clear suggestion is in the following post.

  • Remove On the Hunt entirely (effect combined with Hunt)
  • Remove New Job entirely
  • Remove Always Prepared entirely or
  • Change Always Prepared: Occupy Immune
  • Change to Hunt: 2 charges. Attack a target. Attack is un-redirectable (including via Tornado). No consequence of wrong target. Protections and healing still applies.

My proposed changes in Suggestion form…

Bounty Hunter

Class Type: Neutral Offensive (Unique)

Win Goal: Personally kill one of your two bounties at night. Bounty Hunter is given the classes but not the identities. Both targets begin as BD. Cannot include Prince or Hunter.

Day Ability: The Preparation is All (2 charges) - Hide from all visitors tonight.

Night Ability 1: Stakeout (infinite charges) - If selected player leaves their room tonight, you find out their class type.

Night Ability 2: Hunt - Attack a target. This attack cannot be redirected.


I think a daytime Hide ability would solve many of our problems:

  • Adds a level of protection
  • Increases decision-making (do you use it when you think you might be a target, or save it to increase chances of a successful kill?)
  • Assuages the need for blanket immunities.
  • Unlike the Fool, you can still take a night action the night you hide, including an attack.

actually. the best should be neutral Investigative because of how similar it is to the Inquisitor.

Just like the Inquisitor, you do not know who is your target, but your know their classes.
And this classes will Never be able to learn the exact role of a non-visitor…

If Inq is investigative, then there’s no reason this shouldn’t be, either. All the Class matters for is Princess results, anyway.

I think this class would reward the player’s deduction and decision-making in a dynamic and interesting way - I’ve gotten excited over it haha.

Done

I don’t want to make Bounty Hunter occupy immune, as I’ve opted to focus on the visit prevention with Preparation, as you suggested. In this second iteration, he can work very well as an investigative (specifically princess) claim, but will be caught dead in the water if someone is prevented from visiting him on the same night that someone else was jailed (just like Fool), so I believe that is risk enough for Bounty Hunter’s play-style. And keeping him vulnerable to occupation is still playable for Butlers, as he only has 2 charges of Preparation, and a Butler can occupy him on a night he didn’t use Preparation to confirm his (non)immunity, or even stop a Hunt. However, Hunt’s immunity to redirection might be a problem with Drunks as there will be conflicting information from Butlers and Drunks, causing unprecedented confusion, and an immediate out for the Bounty Hunter if he is debauched on a night he uses Hunt without Preparation. But then again, that occurrence should be very rare in the first place, as Hunt’s immunity to redirection is meant more for being caught by Court Wizard/Ritualist swaps.

Basically requires a high degree of BD not knowing what’s going on. Both times I was a knight claim and they let it fly. In fact, the second time, no one else even stepped up for election, so I got to be Psycho King very easily.

I think the changes are very good. Also I agree, we shouldn’t balance around rare events.

Also I will take your Psycho King advice into consideration :smile:

Reviving this suggestion thread as I still think it is one of the best around, but also would like to add some more considerations after the Mercenary changes and comments from Boslof.

Firstly, the Mercenary being changed to a more-forgiving full commitment to one faction, as opposed to less-forgiving single target protection, reaffirms my considerations above in this thread that Bounty Hunter should have a forgiving “second chance” opportunity with the New Job passive.

Furthermore, with Boslof’s statements that he does not want to keep adding in anti-BD neutral classes, and with the Mercenary change making him a full commitment to the faction he is contracted to so that he can be equally dangerous to both sides, I think it would be a good idea to add another aspect to Bounty Hunter, such that in Cult games, one of his targets can be the starting Cult Leader or member, but this is not guaranteed. This would balance Bounty Hunter as being just as dangerous to scum in Cult games, as Cult is considered the more difficult scum to deal with, and even potentially offer more viable claim space with “I’m Bounty Hunter and my last target is an Invoker, so no reason to kill me,” as opposed to the typical auto-exe of Scorned claims.

I do not think it would be a good idea to make the possibility for one of the Bounty Hunter’s targets be the starting Assassin, as the starting Assassin is typically found out by BD fairly quickly and killed before the Bounty Hunter would be able to get to them.

1 Like