[Class suggestion] Duelist/Gladiator

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

Duelist

Blue Dragon Killer
Passive 1: Competitive - Occupy and Redirect immune
Passive 2: Last stand - If you are the last Blue Dragon alive and the King is dead then you can use both night ability’s in the same night.

Night Ability 1: Parry - If Target player visits you then remove their immunity’s and redirect them to themselves. Every successful use of this ability gives you a use of strike. (Unlimited)
Night Ability 2: Strike - Occupy and kill target player. This Ability will be disabled if you kill a BD. (1 uses)

Gladiator

Unseen Offensive
Passive 1: Competitive - Occupy and Redirect immune
Passive 2: Berserk - If the Mastermind is dead then Stagger has unlimited uses and Occupies the target.

Day Ability: En guard - You will redirect anyone visiting the Unseen to your target bypassing Occupy immunity tonight. You will know who is redirected this way (2 uses)

Night ability 1: Counter - If Target player visits you then remove their immunity’s for 2 nights (including this one) and redirect them to themselves. (Unlimited)
Night ability 2: Stagger - Disable target players passives for 2 nights (including this night). They won’t be informed (2 uses)

Note: If you Parry a reaper he will attack himself but his souls will let him survive. The sorcerer’s perception will stop the her from attacking you if she would trigger Parry. You would need to target the controlled player to parry puppet strings and this will kill them. You will know if parry triggers. If 2 duelists target each other then they will both be redirected to themselves and not visit each other.

A CW support empower or an Enforcer frenzy will get through Parry.

Inspired by @Tormental’s final girl from Camp Cadaver

3 Likes
The Future of Throne of Lies
Sheriff and Paladin merge version 1
#2

Btw Parry does not effect Psychic or a Knight CSing a duelist (totally effects a knight CSing a Champion)

#3

Hey Burrito, I really like this sugggestion. It seems fairly balanced and like it requires some skill to use correctly.

A few questions/suggestions:

  • “Champion” doesn’t sound very dark…perhaps “Bruiser” instead?

  • Last stand seems pretty strong…if you’re the last BD, this gives you a really good shot at winning the game when the Unseen should be rewarded for having numbers. For example, the Duelist could take out the MM and Assassin in one night and then win in a 1v1 with the King. I think this class would be strong enough without Last Stand.

  • Stagger is an interesting idea with one major flaw: Similar to the Illusionist’s chat-deletion ability, this would make it immediately obvious to BD that the Duelist had been converted, which means that you could no longer claim Duelist. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen the chat-deletion actually used for this reason.

  • Unseen Parry also seems a bit weak. For BD, this has the very strong potential of having Unseen target themselves and dying. But for Unseen, you as the Champion would want to use it on confirmed BD roles (invests, drunks, and so on), which if successful would make it obvious that you’re converted (since why else would you want to parry a confirmed BD?).

Perhaps this class could be more like the Poacher, whose abilities are different than the Hunter’s but still related/strong? In general I find the Duelist’s abilities to be dynamic and well-balanced, but not the Champion’s (Bruiser? Please! :stuck_out_tongue: )

Also, the clarification notes are great and fair imo.

#4

Honestly I don’t think either of these are good. I want something that conveys skill rather than strength

He would loose against an evil king. He can’t attack the king just like any other BD. And you need to remember that his strength late game (he can beat a MM and Assassin or even a full unseen if they don’t know his class) is the point. He is very bad early game and can be fake claimed sort of. That being said if he is poisoned then he will loose late game VS MM (MM can just wait for poison and strike can’t kill him without first triggering parry)

The main purpose for the ability is taking out people that can defend themselves. Much like the enforcer’s frenzy actually but more forgiving. It is powerful at this to make up for Parry on him not being that weak

I know it’s weak but he needs it to maintain the claim like the Alcoholic debauch. Stagger is supposed to be strong to make up for it.

#5

I changed the Champion to the Lancer

#6

You’re right - reminds me of the Knight and Paladin, who are both very strong late game but very easy to fake/fail at early game. The Duelist has a slightly better chance of making it to late game, though, which imo is a good thing.

Seal of Approval! :star_struck:

These could just be combined into a single night ability for the Lancer - Guard Stance is strong but balanced imo (though if I were an invest and redirected to myself when investigating [2], and [2] claimed anything but Duelist, I would immediately assume there was a Lancer and that [2] is Unseen as well). It reminds me of the Enforcer’s protection ability but is different enough to be its own feeling.

Why is the Duelist partially forgiven for killing a BD while the Knight is not? The Duelist actually does more damage, since they both occupy and kill the player, while the Knight just dies to avoid doing serious damage to the BD.

I’m just being hard on you because I think this class suggestion has good potential and want to help iron it out. :slight_smile:

#7

I could make it so that you can target non-unseen? Or make it basically an empowered sage shock when with guard stance (probably too strong) You might do that either for mindgames or to get the NK killed.

Same reason as the Hunter and Prince. He is stronger than meny of the BD he would kill (I do need to reword it however. He still can use parry after it) The real problem is hunter having NOTHING happen to him.

#8

I really want to know what @Tormental thinks of this considering the primary Ability is baised on the final girl.

#9

Hey I’m just glad to be credited. XD

My only thought is wondering if the Devs made the game where it’s possible to do two night actions at once. Random thought.

Personal preference in names would be “Champion” with a lance-wielding knight as the icon and ability names related to “Joust”, “Challenge”, and the like to sell the idea he’s like a “favored contestant” in the King’s tournaments, then having the Unseen version be something like “Upsetter”, someone who is an underdog in a contest/etc. but turns out to beat everyone. Icon similar to Champion, but maybe hoisting a trophy in a boastful, arrogant way instead of holding a lance heroically.

…

well, you asked… XD

#10

I was hoping you would let me know what you think about the actual Ability’s…

I’m sure they could make it work. The CL can use both day Ability’s after all so why not?

#11

Best way to go through and give my thoughts would be like this, since I’m a douche bag who would otherwise have difficulty explaining my PoV…

Champion - Blue Dragon (Killing)

Passive 1:
Competitive - Occupy and Redirect immune.

Passive 2:
Last Man Standing - If you are the last BD alive, you gain unlimited use of your “Joust!” ability.

^ I altered this in case it actually isn’t possible to do two night actions. You never know. Plus I think this can really help the Champion be an end-game game changer in a big way.

Night Ability 1:
Mirrored Shield - If the player you choose tries to use a night ability on you, they will instead use it on themselves. Removes their immunities. (Unlimited.)

Night Ability 2:
Joust! - Occupy and kill your target. Both effects will fail if your target is BD. (1 use.)

^ Set this to 1 use due to changed “Last Man Standing” passive. IMHO this also needs a penalty as strict as the Knight’s Cold Steel, but right now I’m still thinking about it.

Converts to…

Upsetter - Unseen (Offensive)

Passive:
Boastful - Occupy and Redirect immune.

Day Ability:
Throw Gauntlet - Your “Human Shield” ability will affect visitors to your target instead of yourself. (3 uses.)

^ Name based on the old cliché of “throwing down the gauntlet” to challenge someone.

Night ability 1:
Human Shield - Players who try to use a night ability on you will instead use them on your target without being notified they are redirected. Removes your visitors’ redirect immunities. (Unlimited.)

^ Altered this to give the Unseen convert a more “devious” version of the ability.

Night ability 2:
Below the Belt - Secretly disable your target’s previously used day abilities. (4 uses.)

^ I simplified this a lot and gave it more uses. I feel like even this basic reduction is pretty powerful if used correctly. The additional uses are of course to counter all the times you’ll use it but your target didn’t activate their day ability. Note this could do things like: Remove Alch’s Stone Skin for that night, reset Sheriff’s Scout to no player, remove King’s Guards for that night, etc.

Just IMHO, and so on. I guess my “rule of thumb” for classes is mostly “strong theme, simple-but-useful actions”.

1 Like
#12

Ignoreing the theme stuff for now. If enough people (like 3 or so) want to change it that’s fine.

The idea behind the passive is to allow for multi kills and with unseen to defend against both MM and assassin simultaneously. There are actually other ways I could accomplish a similar effect but this is definitely a compromise that could be made if everything else is either OP or impossible.

If the Last stand change to what you suggested turns out to be needed then this is fine

I actually really like this. I would however like to also include a day Ability that makes it work like Parry (another reason for not changing the name. Much shorter)

This is actually really weak. Kings guard is a night Ability so the only situation it furfill the main function is with the Alch and it furfill none of the secondary purposes. Luckily with your Evil Parry replacement I can simply remove the day Ability interaction from Stagger and make it much clearer and simpler.

#13

I changed last stand, I added a day Ability that lets the Lancer use your Human shield idea (he does still need Parry to prove himself. Plus I feel like combining it with guard stance was too strong although I am changing that too) and I simplified Stagger (not in the way you suggested but still)

#14

Made last stand also effect Srike and gave the Lancer an equivalent

#15

Reverted Last stand. I realized that the other version was kinda useless.

#16

Lancer needs to have an ability that forces it to kill itself.

#17

Excuse me?

1 Like
#18

Yeah, the Lancer class has the worst luck, and usually ends up being forced to stab itself.

I can’t for the life of me figure out why that is not reflected here.

#19

It’s not referencing something

#20

Yes it is it’s called “Lancer” :roll_eyes: