[Class Suggestion]:The Balancer(Neutral Special)/The Imbalanced(Unseen Special)

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

The Balancer(Neutral Unique Special)

Converted class:The Imbalanced(Unseen Special)/The Seeker(Cult Investigative)

Passive 1:The Other King:If you become King, you will be of the opposite faction of the first King.
(Good King->Cult/Unseen King, Cult/Unseen King->Good King)
Passive 2: Forged Ancestry:You may step up as King as if you had Royal Blood.
Night Ability 1:Balance of mind(2 uses) Resist any attempt to convert you. If you successfully resisted an attempt to convert you, then you are conversion immune for the rest of the time.
Night Ability 2: Remove Imbalance(infinite Uses):Disable Royal Blood on your target for two days and nights.
Day Abilitiy 1:Balance of body(1 use) Remove poison or bleeding from yourself.
Day Ability 2: Knowledge of Imbalance(2 uses):You will know which faction currently has more votes than any other faction.

Objective: The starting King loses the game.

Lore: Your sect has been notified that the King of Castle Adiart may have taken sides with a faction. You are tasked to find out if that is true, and if it is true you are tasked to punish the King and its faction. Should it not be true you are tasked with helping the King or at least another neutral minded person.

Converts into:

The Imbalanced(Unseen Special)

1.Passive 1: Forged Ancestry:You may step up as King as if you had Royal Blood.
2.Day Ability 1: Knowledge of Imbalance(1 use):You will know which faction currently has more votes than any other faction.
3.Day Ability 2: Throw off Balance(1 use): Disable any Day Abilities of your target today.
4.Night ability 1: Imbalanced Body(1 use)Remove poison and Bleeding and be immune to poison and bleeding this night, but any healing attempt on you this night will kill you instead.
5.Night Ability 2: Establish Imbalance(Infinite uses): Your target has Forged Ancestry for the next two days and nights. They will be informed about this when the King dies.

Now, the idea behind this is simple: The faction of the initial King is unknown.
This role mitigates the advantage of the King faction. This role is very interesting to play: You do not know your true goal as long as the first King is alive. You have to guess and wait. On the other hand, as long as you are not converted, you might have a manageable goal: You just must make the first King’s faction lose…
For both Blue Dragon and Unseen/Cult, it is important to remember that this class is only fully on their side if 1.the King was on an opposing faction and 2. the Balanced was made King. Otherwise, it is free to give the win to the Neutral Killers. If Cult/Unseen/Blue Dragon are wiped out, and the opposing faction is alive, then that might be its only win chance.
The Forged Ancestry is different to Royal Blood… it does not stick upon conversion!

#2

accurate name

3 Likes
#3

Can you please be a bit more specific towards what you actually mean?

#4

Please use bold print and better spacing in more circumstances, this is very hard to read.

#5

I acknowledge that that might have been a bit hard to read, so I changed it

#6

I mean it is imbalanced

#7

@JammySplodge Do you have any reasons for thinking that the Imbalanced is, class ability wise, imbalanced?
I mean, sure, The Imbalanced is very weak, but on the other hand it does not occupy a spot in the Unseen faction.

#8

I think for the sake of clarity. The Keeper of Balance should immediately know the King’s faction but should have a Vow of Silence ability that prevents the player from saying the King’s faction.

#9

I think that that is just not possible… mechanics wise.
How about:
Passive ability:Knowledge of Balance:“The Keeper of Balance will know if the original King is Neutral or not if he is still alive at the beginning of Day 4”
That would tell the Balanced if the King has an interest in the factions, at least. It would be up to himself to find out which one the King actually supports!(Bonus if the King actually claimed Neutral King somehow, you now know that the king is likely evil)
It is also… well, not wise to out yourself if the King is Neutral, because you want the King to survive in this case, and two dangerous neutral claims might be, well, dangerous!
Also, please remember that the Keeper of Balance can always support the Neutral killer, unless the Neutral Killer is dead or the Balanced made King(at a point when everyone knows who the King was anyways).

#10

I’d like to have some more comments on what I could actually do to improve this role, if there is anything, constructive criticism is welcome, “This is imbalanced” or similar without explanation is not welcome, and some more comments on Polik’s comment- clarity and such.
Or in other words: Bump.

#11

-The master walks in-

Overpowered, seeing as you do not count against the conversion limit.

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but all you are doing is defending against alch’s poison, whilst risking dying to phys and alchs healing? This seems weak, especially for only one use; you probably aren’t night shade poisoned if you were converted.

I’m not sure a class can have more than 2 passives

Suggestions: So far, the only interesting thing in this class (keeper of balance) is to be converted. Perhaps he should have royal blood, or an actually strong ability.

If I didn’t quote one of the abilities, it means I didn’t have a direct complaint for it.

#12

First off: Thanks for the criticism.
Now lets see:
These passives are not exactly overpowered.
Yes you dont count against the conversion limit.
The thing is: The mastermind still has a cooldown after converting you.
If the Mastermind dies at the day, no one will know that you are unseen, conversely, they will assume you were conversion immune. What is extra bad for them that, in this case, even if you are the Keeper you CAN make yourself conversion immune. Plus thats also the reason for the poison removal- if assassin uses instant nightshade then they can clear it off- and then they can assume that you are the Imbalanced…or the Balanced. There is also another reason why the mastermind conversion is not op: You don’t have any good claimspace anyways, your abilities are nearly unprovable by BD, nor are they useful for Unseen. So if BD somehow neglects you while getting those who have far more claimspace(other converted Unseen), well then…

Now to the other point of criticism: Yes, the Keeper can’t do much on its own. The central point of the Keeper of Balance is the win condition. Not its abilities- they are weak. Except of course the King conversion. But for it to be used three things must happen:

  1. There is a dead evil King/neutral King.
  2. The people trust you, which is difficult because you can be converted and have no confirming abilities.
  3. No one with Royal Blood steps up.
    Your job is to find out the King’s alignment and subvert his goals if he is aligned, but if he is neutral, then he can actually help… You need to be extra careful to
  4. not let a faction steamroll the other if you ain’t sure who the King actually is(exception: neutral killers)
  5. have a good fakeclaim if you are needed.
#13

Okay I understand, that complaint is now rescinded.

yes, but if this actually affects him (I.E he dies before cool down finishes) you simply replace him; it would be fine if you replaced him within 2-3 nights of your conversion (like the original assassin)[quote=“Unknown, post:12, topic:2126”]
Yes, the Keeper can’t do much on its own. The central point of the Keeper of Balance is the win condition.
[/quote]

this reminds me of the executioner, where the only thing different from other roles was the win condition.
The win condition, by itself, cannot make a role fun; it needs interesting abilities.

#14

And by help another neutral win, do you mean live alongside another neutral?

#15

No exactly not, that is why its abilities are not very powerful: Its survival isnt that important in any case, which means that the Keeper can accumulate suspicion(if king was Good), take hits(if king was not good at all) or defend a Neutral Killer at the sure loss of its own life(e.g. 2v2)
Good King=wins if BD loses
Bad King=wins if cult/unseen lose
Neutral King= wins if another neutral wins
Its presence has a reason, and that is to lessen the advantage of the Faction with the original King.

Do you think that it should get one or two more, but weak abilities?

And about replacing the Mastermind: Please remember that all Unseen except you must die. So if MM dies and Assassin and Sage not, then the Imbalanced does not convert. Only when all of them have died, Assassin, any other Unseen, the Mastermind… then you turn into the Mastermind. Not earlier. If the Mastermind actually dies by lynch the following day and any Assassin is present, then they might be tempted to kill you since they dont know you… only that you were supposedly conversion immune. Add to this that you have no better claimspace than the original Mastermind then you might see why that ability is not that strong.

#16

I think this is a good way to fix this imbalance, as 8 player games are almost entirely decided on the king’s alignment; that being said, if the king is neutral, can you meet the win condition by having the neutral king win?[quote=“Unknown, post:15, topic:2126”]
And about replacing the Mastermind: Please remember that all Unseen except you must die.
[/quote]

I did not realize this; please make this clearer in the original post, as this fixes the class a great deal.

#17

It is now:
1.Passive:Mental Disorder: You will not meet with the Unseen, and will not replace the Assassin, but you do not count against the conversion limit either. You will turn into Mastermind if all other Unseen die.
which should be clear.

… and the way it is currently worded, yes, you could win with the neutral King. Do you think that winning with the neutral King and another faction is a problem?

#18

No, I was just unclear because this role seemed very anti-king

#19

so I guess this role is otherwise fine? Or do you suggest adding some additional(weak) wildcard abilities to it?

#20

yep, needs a few more weak abilities.