[Class Suggestion] The Grey Seer

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

The Grey Seer
NOT unique
Neutral class
Special
Conversion Immune
Win condition: Survive
Impairing condition: You effectively stand in the way of victory for the Unseen/Cult and the Neutral Killer.

Passive

Loved among men: If the seer is executed during the day the King will die of grief the next night. If executed in jail the Prince dies of grief the same night. You are occupy immune.
Fragile constitution: Poison and Bleeding kill you in 1 night.

Day abilities:

First among equals: Decide who the next King will be from those that stepped forward, you cannot vote for yourself. (1x Use)
Blessing: Choose a player, he becomes night immune for the next night. In doing so you also become night immune. (3x Use) (No feedback during the day on anyone but yourself when used) (Can be used day 1)

Night abilities:

Seer’s Eye: Be notified who visited you at night (Infinite uses)
Destiny: Cleanse yourself of all poison and bleeding and convert yourself to the Evil faction. (1x use) (You dont meet with the evil faction at night, they dont know you are converted to their side.)

The Darkened Seer
NOT unique
Evil class - Both Unseen and Cult version (You dont meet with Evil at night, you dont count to their cap)
Special
Win condition: Survive
impairing condition: You DONT stand in the way of victory for the NK or the Cult/Unseen or the Neutral killer. You effectively stand in the way of victory for the Blue Dragon faction

Passive:

Unrelenting: You are immune to poison and bleeding and are occupy immune.
Despised among men: When the Darkened seer gets executed during the day the council can trial and execute someone else too. When the Prince executes him at night he wont expend a charge.

Day abilities:

First among equals: Decide who the next King will be from those that stepped forward, you cannot vote for yourself. (1x Use) (Doesnt refresh the charges when converted)
Seer’s Link: Choose a player, you will psychic link with them tonight. (1x Use). (The player will see the player as a neutral colored Seer that speaks).

Night abilities

Unholy Fog: Force a player to lose himself in the fog, he is prevented from visiting anyone. You cannot be visited by anyone this night. (2x Use) (Not the same as occupying. Abilities that dont visit still work).
Mezmorize: Choose a player, the player you target gets incorrect feedback from their abilities. This player cannot visit you this night. (infinite uses). (Can target the king)

Strategy:

Its hard to confirm yourself as a Grey Seer making you a potential claim for other neutrals. Aside from that the Blue Dragon loves you in your original ‘‘stance’’. You can provide them with night immunity and yourself at the same time. Plus they get punished heavily for killing you. Aside from that the NK and Unseen/Cult must kill you to win. However if you are outted the Unseen/Cult can ‘‘Persuade’’ you to their side. Since Bleeding and Poison kill you very easily you have to make a choice those nights. Do I trust a healer will cure me or do I side with evil to survive?

The moment you switch the whole dynamic changes. You no longer stand in the way of victory for an NK or the Unseen/Cult meaning you can win with either (your win condition remains ‘’‘survive’’). But the Blue Dragon now have reason to hunt you. They even get benefits from removing you from the field during the day by allowing another trial after or not expending the Prince’s ability if he executes you. Now you must use your day abilities differently, maybe put an evil king on the throne or link with someone you know is NK or Evil.

The new problem it creates:

A neutral class that can switch sides to further his chances of victory increases the tension. Its quite an advanced class to play since he loses his ability to become night immune when he converts himself. Tactical play and deduction are quite important. Remember that even when turned he can still choose to side with the NK and remove the Unseen/Cult.

Side note: If two Seers use their First Among Equals ability on different people nobody becomes king and a new election follows the next day (Same as a normal Draw)

3 Likes
#2

This is just even a stronger reason for the current ‘Neuts Out’ situation. You literally have the ability to convert yourself, so the Grey Seer is a huge liability. Also, how would converting yourself work when the Cult/Unseen have a full party already?
I like Blessing alot, its like stoneskin but for two, with one less charge.
Invigorate is basically the old Court Wizards recharge, which honestly did not have the biggest impact, but its good to prove that you are what you say.

The Despised among men passive is really creative and I think it’s a great idea!
Seer’s Link is flawed considering it’s only usable once converted, therefore linking a member of the BD will confirm that you are inf act converted.

Unholy Fog should probably have 2x charges, considering most Unseen/Cult abilities do aswell.

Overall it’s a great idea for a new Neutral Class that is not a killer.

#3

Hey Dusked, first of all thank you for taking the time to write a well written responds.
Allow me to adress some of your concerns you are seeing with my current suggestion.

I was actually hoping that the Grey Seer would make the ‘‘Neuts out’’ mentality more difficult.
Yes he is absolutely a liability however his ‘‘Loved among men’’ Passive makes it difficult to just execute him or jail and off him. In those scenario’s you either lose the King (and if this happens early all the allies abilities with it) or you lose the Prince a major blow. Keep in mind that the moment he is actually converted he will show as Cult/Unseen and no longer neutral. So a neutral check can never be the darkened Seer.

Invigorate is a bland copy of the old CW ability, but i wanted something which could help the BD so its even more difficult to kill the Grey Seer as they lose out on potential. I added the ability to target the King with it (only recharges guard btw, not allies).

Seer’s link is meant to be a high risk ability that allows you to contact the Unseen/Cult or the Neutral Killer. Keep in mind that your win condition remains survive. So you dont necessarily need to help the Evil Faction, you could also choose to help the Neutral killer. However if your deduction skills are lacking and you target a Blue Dragon… Game Over as its meant to be :wink:

Changing Unholy Fog to 2x charges, I like it thank you for that suggestion Ill edit it in immediately.

On the matter of the convert itself: you dont actually join the Cult/Unseen, you dont see them at night and they wont know you were converted to their side. They can also still target you with their abilities. You dont count towards their cap (much like an evil king). However in your ‘‘Good stance’’ the NK and Unseen/Cult need to kill you to win. (see impairing win condition) in your evil stance they dont, but the BD need to kill you. Thats why you need to use Seer’s link to target the right person and let them know you are now on their side and ask them to not attack you. Since you lost your night immunity!

#4

Oh! Okay that makes alot more sense now. Thank you for the well written reply :slight_smile:
I understand why the Seer’s Link is a strong tool now. Using it on a member of the Unseen/Cult to demonstrate your allegiance is risky, but if done correctly incredibly strong.

I was thinking of ways to to make the ‘Neuts Out’ mentality difficult as well. After reading your response, I understand how The Grey Seer can achieve this. Well done!

My only real issue right now is that I see a lot of Neuts fake claiming to be The Grey Seer since you don’t exactly want to execute him. Although this can be worked around with both First Among equals and Invigorate.
Maybe a cool idea would be to give The Dark Seer another charge of Invigorate once a new King has been crowned, to further prove that he is what he says he is (or to get a falsely proven by a Cult/Unseen or NK).

#5

Replacing First among equals with invigorate after the ability is used is a pretty cool idea however that would sort of give him 3 nights abilities which isnt allowed. Aside from that I am still on the fence about invigorate, I might switch it to an ability that allows you to see who visited you at night to increase your chancing of knowing who is and isnt evil. This info you can then use when converted. I just dont know if recharge is a fun ability to have and thats most important.

What do you think about the ability to know who visited you at night?

#6

I feel as if Invigorate is needed as a way to confirm your Dark Seer claim. Although I think a subtle ability such as seeing who visited other people at night is needed so you’re able to deduct who the cult/unseen are.

#7

I’ve changed it because i never really liked the recharge… plus it leaves a huge footprint making it hard for other neutrals to claim they are the Grey Seer.

I’ve swapped it to: Seer’s Eye: Be notified who visited you at night (Infinite uses) for the Good Stance.

So now you can gather intel while being night immune (if you used blessing) on who may or may not be killers, healers, investigators. When you swap to your evil stance you can use this information. Because Seer’s Eye doesnt leave a footprint its harder to confirm the Grey Seer which is perfect.

#8

The grey seer needs to be occ immune to match with the dark seer.

#9

You are technically correct but i cannot fit in anywhere… someone can only have 2 passives… unless i drop occ immunity from the dark seer? I could put it under fragile but it seems weird.

Edit 1: I’ve taken a second look and I think the grey seer should have occupy immunity somewhere otherwise its difficult for NK’s to claim Grey Seer.

Edit 2: I’ve added occupy immunity to his Loved among Men passive. Makes sense, people love him so wouldnt occupy him. I’ve also made the class not unique. Should someone fake claim Grey Seer another cannot instantly out him to try and be buddies with the BD. The whole point of the class is to give the NK some more breathing room too.

Edit 3: Clarified the interaction between 2 Seers voting different people with their ability during an election.

Side note: If two Seers use their First Among Equals ability on different people nobody becomes king and a new election follows the next day (Same as a normal Draw)