[Class Suggestion] The Necromancer

Necromancer - (Neutral Killer) This NK makes being killed by him, not the exit button to your next game.
Upon being killed by the necromancer, you will become a spirit in limbo tying your win condition to the Necromancer. The spirits can aid the necromancer by sharing information in a limbo tab and using their abilities at night. The spirits keep the number of uses of abilities that they had upon being killed. The Necromancer can be tied to a maximum of 3 spirits at once, but their win condition stays tied after being relinquished.

Win Condition: Same as reaper/possessor.

Passive 1:
Hearing Voices - The Necromancer will hear the voices of the spirits in limbo at night.

Passive 2:
One With Death - The Necromancer is immune to death if he is linked to 1 or no spirit.

Day Ability:
Respect the Dead - All spirits will be granted voting and accusation rights and their day abilities will become active for this day. (2 uses)

Day Ability 2:
Relinquish - You let one of your spirits pass on removing their spirit status. (Unlimited uses)

Night Ability:
Resurrection - Attack targeted player and grant the attacked player spirit status if he dies, granted that he is not immune to conversion. (Unlimited uses)

Lore: pending, will basically be about a farm boy falling in love with a physician, that is slowly converted to a herbalist, bussed by the MM and executed by BD. The farm boy finds some cult spell book that he uses together with the reanimation knowledge that he learned of his physician lover to attempt a resurrection at the graveyard. He hears the voice of his lover in his dreams and his wounds are healed upon waking up. Reinvigorated he swears to sacrifice everyone who played a role in his lover’s death, in order to become more powerful and hopefully truly reunite with his lover.

Comments: In a sense the kill ability is like raising a DK. Protection from the court is granted through Respect the Dead that allows his spirits to vote in the necromancer’s favour and in lategame to declare majority. Necromancer also has exceptional fake claiming capabilities, as he can mirror a log of a spirit of his. A downside to this is that the results of a night are delayed by a day. This all probably seems really strong and to compensate for that, he is not occupy immune, partly night immune and very vulnerable early on. Target selection is more important for him than it is for other classes.

Strong spirit benefits examples:
Knight: Can guard you twice at maximum and can still kill scum with CS, making this a great choice if scum is doing well. Will no longer be a spirit for you if he CS’es BD.
Physician: Heals every night, cannot be occupied.
Observer: Best fake logs you can imagine. Delayed by a night unfortunately.
Court Wizard: You are now occupy immune.
Hunter: 2 extra kills through wolves and then relinquishable.
Noble: Relinquish after snoops and extra voting power with Respect the Dead.

Weak spirit benefits examples:
Butler: Can provide some use, however you cannot mirror this log, because you are not occupy immune without a CW spirit.
Princess: Meager investigatory results.
Psychic: The necromancer can finally communicate with your fellow spirits, instead of having one way communication. That is the only benefit.
Drunk: Same benefits as a butler, however the living will instantly know it’s a necromancer game.
Sheriff/Paladin: They cannot find you and their logs are already easy to fake.
Mercenary: Their win condition has changed, but their guards won’t help you. Only the revenge kill might.

The possibilities and possible interactions are really exciting, so I wonder what the community thinks of this. There are many many balancing options if this is overpowered. For instance spirits can last only a certain duration before they move on etc. Or resurrection and killing can be separate abilities with limited uses.

3 Likes

I really like the concept of this! I do feel like the spirits should only last up to 3 days. That way, it can work like the cult getting majority with 4 people.

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People who are conversion immune should not turn into Spirits.

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I’m thinking that Spirits should only keep 1 of their night ability’s depending on class. Also this class all but NEEDS a defile ability and journal clearing powers.

This is a very unique idea. Beyond the obviously novel mechanics, having a NK who isn’t death immune by default is a very different dynamic.

Additionally, the importance of target selection makes the game so much more engaging for both the NK and the BD. The Necromancer obviously wants very specific classes, and the BD need to be careful about who they claim to, since their trusted allies now become valuable information sources for the enemy. Plus the mind games are super next level - for example, the dead could vote to pardon a non-Necromancer to get the prince to execute them that night, killing a BD and removing the Prince’s teeth.

My favorite part though is that it makes the game continue to be fun for dead people. I think it’d be an absolute hoot to enter into the secret chat of the Necromancer and help figure out how to best defeat the court while still playing an active role in the game.

Plus, you get to taunt the psychic in dead chat.

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What happens if you kill mm/cult?

What classes should keep what ability’s

Knight: Guard
King: Guards
Alchemist: Emerald Potion
Observer: Follow
CW: Tornado
Princess: Flirt
Psychic: Link Minds
Drunk: Happy Hour
Merc: Revenge
Sheriff: Expert investigation
Paladin: Test faith

Convert immune classes should never become spirits. Otherwise if you kill one then you learn the entire cult/unseen’s identity for the rest of the game.

Also the Spirits should know the name of the necromancer. Otherwise they would simply use a code word and get the information anyways. “Say : ‘sooooo’ at the start of the day so I know who you are.”

Can you explain your reasoning a bit more please? I understand the need for balance, so I can see why the number or duration of spirits could need limiting. However Respect the Dead is only useable for 2 days and the Necromancer only needs to be voted up once during the day to get killed. Two remaining players during the day will always be able to beat a necromancer. So it is typically only useful early in the game for framing/mindgaming plus using useful day abilities. Or it is useful at the very end, to avoid execution at day, but everyone knows who you are. It’s very akin to reaper’s chill mechanic.

This basically means the necromancer has won when it has come down to 4/5 people, depending on the abilities the spirits and the remaining living have. That is by design and mirrors the reaper in that it is hard to get to that point and only something like a prince execute will still kill you.

Conversion immune list:

Alchemist: His win condition is over and he is hard to kill already, so the reward can be accordingly.
Necromancer can also win with alchemist living at the end, so the incentive to kill is already low.

Fool: Zero useful abilities for Necromancer and the Necromancer misses out on the freebie no execution days.

Inquisitor/Reaper/Possessor/Sorcerer: Does not appear.

King: Hard to kill since he is the prime target for being guarded and his abilities are not even all that useful for the Necromancer compared to a Phys/Knight. The Necromancer also cannot evade physicians like a reaper can or knights like a possessor can.

Scorned: Immune to death at night, so needs to be happy houred and close to useless abilities.

Prince: You have me here, I understand the need to be able to safely claim to Prince, or we get the rebels that don’t claim to psychic problem… Prince abilities are only useful during Respect the Dead, so his knowledge can still be an asset to the Necromancer.

Scum: Now this is tricky to argue and I guess you argue against this, because you want the Necromancer to still apply social deduction to the fullest. It can be a rule that newly made converts will not be known to spirit scum to maintain a level of that. However killing scum will only give you the identity of on average 2 other players and you take away some killing power of scum that is only in the assassin’s case added back to you. An invoker added to your spirit collection will eventually wither down its uses, so there needs to be an upside to that or killing cult faction will generally be underwhelming. That can cause an imbalance in cult/Necromancer and unseen/Necromancer games, so I’m personally still torn on this issue. The Necromancer already needs a lot of deduction in picking the best targets to add to his spirit collection however.

After typing out this list, I can see why you would argue against this current incarnation. Not having this would also make investigative spirits more useful.

If you kill 5 people by day 6 then even if no one else has died for any reason then you can use Respect the Dead and put 6 votes on someone and exe them. That means that if the prince is dead and you have killed a healer/knight then you can’t loose no matter what else is going on in the game at the moment.

10 people (including you)

6 votes is enough to vote someone up and exe them

You kill someone else at night and its now 8 people

then 6 people

If you killed an assassin/Cult leader at some point then your down to 3 people (2 night kills and 1 poison). And thats assuming the unseen/cult stop killing

I’m suggesting a limit on how meny dead can vote with the ability on 1 person. Convert immune do need to be immune tho under the current system because:

A: Scum killers and alch’s are OP in his kit even with some limitations. (too much KPN)

B: The problem is that while sure you only get the identity of 2 or so members at once if you even want more information you can just kill one of those 2. In an unseen game there is also the problem of one of those 2 people being the MM.

I disagree with having only 1 night ability as a spirit. Early on the Necromancer is really weak and needs the extra oomph the limited night abilities add. This also gives a lot of overhead for what is for now a relatively simply class. Day abilities would similarly need to be balanced.

The idea is to limit the power creep later on. Plus most of those ability’s are useless to the spirit anyways.

Also the day ability’s already are limited by Respect the Dead

That is an extreme scenario that is unlikely to occur. First off, you are bound to hit a death immune/jailed target at some point. You STILL lose at day without Respect the Dead against a mere 2 people. Let alone the fact that BD can also defend their own members with healers/knights/target swaps.

Then add in the deaths from Unseen/Cult.

lets say you kill 3 people by Day 4 (not unreasonable) and that the unseen kills another 3 and that your 3rd kill was an assassin (statistically you would kill an assassin a bunch of the time).

there are now 10 people alive again. Simply accuse someone and get them voted by 2 people (probably the 2 Unseen) and then use the dead to put 4 more votes on them. They get exed and then 3 people die the next night (2 from assassins and 1 from you). now there are 6 people left and 4 sprits. You can vote up the MM and then kill 4 people and then its a 1 on 1.

if you don’t think he would be able to pull that off then remember just how much information he gets from the dead investigates. Not to mention he gets all of the psy claims even if he never touched the psy. That and having the spirits not being able to hear the dead would make his existence super easy to confirm.

Also in any game were you hit the Assassin N1 you can just hit the N1 convert and either get another assassin or kill the prince 9 times out of 10.

And don’t even get me started on 2for1