Yeah I agree
What part of âthe abilities must be support abilitiesâ donât people seem to get. Also ew 100% accurate unfoolable faction check.
Magic Barrier is still boring and now itâs not even useful against Illusionist. Good job.
Killer ability, and literally a worse Cold Steel.
The use is far too limited to just be one use. Itâs an okay archetype but really needs more than 1 use.
Offensive ability, try again.
Investigative ability, try again.
Killer ability, try again.
I donât want to see a hybrid of all of those classes. Itâs just needlessly complicated and swingy. Plus, it kinida takes away the weight of the special thing that only you can do.
BD have very few good day abilites, the day abilities are generally used more by evil classes. Way too UP to be one use.
Why would you not target Mastermind. Because who needs Nightwatch, eh? I mean, itâs not like Nightwatch isnât one of the weakest converts anyway cough cough
Oh wow you made it even more busted than Frenzy. Good job.
Wow, an ability from Duchess, which is already a weak converrt anyway, along with all of these OP abilities! Itâs not like Duchess is already a weaker conversion cough it is cough
Because who needs reasonable kill power on a faction. Pfft? Balance. Nah, a potential 6 KPN in a 16 player game SEEMS LEGIT.
So Sage is somehow even better than current Sage, whoâs already one of the best conversions.
Limited use again and only serves to confirm the presence of a CW in the game.
Overall: Even ignoring the âyou can only have 2 night abilitiesâ this is a poorly balanced rework. ToL simply dosenât need a Jack-Of-All-Trades.
Oof, someone woke up on the wrong side of the Round Table this morning. Iâll try to respond to your thoughts.
What I agree with
I agree that the faction check day ability is meh. Itâs intended to give a little social flavor to the class, and create interesting situations during a trial where the CW could viably lobby for (or against) the accused, but could also be easily lied about. Even under ideal circumstances, knowing with 100% certainty what a playerâs class is doesnât always save them / convict them.
I also agree that Magical Shield/conversion protection is a snooze ability. The intent was to give something for the CW to do between single use abilities, but likely itâs better just being out and having ONLY the single use skills.
I agree with this in part. I donât think the night abilities are particularly complicated, but it creates actual choices for the player. It does somewhat lower the âspecialnessâ of other classes abilities, but I believe thatâs balanced by the single-use nature of the skills. As a bonus, it seems to fit the flavor of an actual âwizard.â
As I said in my post, I wasnât wild about the Sage design. It definitely needs more work.
What I disagree with
First off, there is obviously some liberty being taken with the classification of âsupport.â Part of the problem CW faces right now is that a pure defensive class is already covered by physician, who protects against attack and poison. Magical Barrier protects against everything else, but is boring to play and generally has little impact (other than maybe frustrating a Mastermind for a turn).
Without additional mechanics to defend against, thereâs not much room for a defensive support. So instead, I envisioned âsupportâ as the CW filling the weaknesses left by increasingly dead BD roles. The CW âsupportsâ the BD by filling in with single use abilities that mimic other role abilities. If the Devâs want to disqualify me because I thought a little outside the box, thatâs totally fine, I recognize that itâs not explicitly support. But this is another way the CW could go. And the whole point of the contest is to get new ideas, right?
So thatâs my response to all of your âTry agains.â The abilities could have impact if used and timed correctly, which would make the new CW a high skill cap role.
The whole idea is that it is a massive risk/reward, in order to restrict âyoloâ attacks. As a kill ability, it shouldnât be as good as the original.
Even for your general level of sarcasm, you kicked it up a notch here and I canât tell what your actual point is. MMâs Foresight is use limited, and depending on when the CW is converted the MM may be missing charges already. Even if heâs at full, itâs unlikely all 4 will be used before either the Assassin or CW dies/is outed. You would not target the Mastermind if your Assassin is under suspicion, or if heâs getting rando-blocked by that pesky Butler. It would also provide an avenue to get at the Drunk.
This is likely my bad on the phrasing. When I say âEmpowerâ I mean that the effects of the regular unlimited use Rune of Power apply (Occ Immune/Role check). Not âEmpowerâ in the Frenzy sense.
This is Circle of Death, but with poison. Iâve seen limited circumstances where CoD actually catches more than one person, but itâs usually a whiff. Being single use, and only poisoning, I think thereâs value here. If you wanted to moderate it, just remove the kill for those already-poisoned.
Most class abilities confirm a roleâs presence in the game: Hunter Wolf, Drunk Debauch, Knight Defense, etc. Itâs all about how its presented socially to the rest of the group and whether BD trust the claim, or think itâs a coordinated evil lie.
I think given the limited mechanics remaining to defend against, and the clear direction that Magic Barrier is a boring ability, a Jack-of-All-Trades could be an interesting addition. I do appreciate the constructive criticism (even if I had to dig through some snark and sarcasm to get it).
And I will say this again.
You can lie to a player.
But you canât lie to the system
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Itâs mmore busted than Frenzy because it gets you the occ immunity and the OP class check.
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