Continue Continue Tweaking the Scorned

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

The new Scorned was just announced, but I think it’ll need a few slight tweaks to prevent it from losing its old identity.

In short, the new Scorned now needs to survive long enough to see four public executions. It also has a new night ability alongside Frame called “Stalk”, which allows it to investigate players to determine their alignment up to three times.

The problem? This kit and wincon are not incompatible with the Blue Dragon. In fact, the ability to investigate may be directly helpful to them! This can be a problem, as it is now not only possible but in fact desiriable for the Scorned to out themselves, promise not to frame people, and act as the Blue Dragon’s new investigator.

What really makes this problematic is the fact that Scorned is immediately provable and essentially unkillable at night. Having Trollbox allows the Scorned to prove that it isn’t the NK, Unseen, or Cult, and having full-time night immunity means thaf a rogue Scorned is much harder for the other evils to stop than it should be. Sure, you can use night-immunity-piercing methods to kill it, but those are usually slow and/or limited for the scum, requiring either the Neutral Killer or the main faction to put a heavy investment into killing somebody that could, and in fact should, be their ally (something they should both usually avoid, especially the NK).

So, how do we fix this? I don’t honestly think it would be that hard. Simply change Scorned’s wincon from needing to live to see four executions to needing to see three Blue Dragon executed or to see the Blue Dragon lose. This essentially prevents the new Scorned from becoming an ally to the BD.

Additionally, I think Stalk is better off being replaced with Bait and Switch, a move that works just like the Court Wizard’s tornado. The ability to swap around players can help you protect scummy players, frame good ones, and generally confuse the Blue Dragon to help you achieve your goal.

So, where does that leave us?

The Scorned
Neutral Social

Resolve (Passive) - Immune to most occupation and redirection abilities. Immune to death at night. This is lost when you achieve your objective.

Troll Box (Day) - Choose a target player and whisper a short phrase into the troll box. It will appear as if that player said it. (Infinite uses)

Frame (Night) - Make your target appear suspicious to investigative classes. (Infinite uses)
Bait and Switch (Night) - Cause all players targeting one of your targets to target the other. Bypasses redirection immunity. (3 uses)

Your objective is to live to see 3 members of the Blue Dragon publicly executed, or to live to see the Blue Dragon defeated.

I think this Scorned works much better at blending its old nature with a new, more general wincon, and would love to see it implemented soon.

Oh, and if you still want Stalk, if this Scorned needs a buff it could always come back as a day ability. Three uses seems like a bit much, as day investigations can be really powerful, but on this version of the Scorned it should be okay. After all, it’s certainly not using day investigations to find the scum anymore!

Stalk (Day) - Discover a player’s faction. (2 uses)

Edit: The old thread has been locked, but it had a lot of support (15 likes plus good discussion) so I’m reposting it.

1 Like
#2

Deja vu

4 Likes
#3

Yeah I agree. Having a night immune instantly provable investigator is not fun or fair to scum.

So what if it’s a scumsided neutral. Every single neutral doesnt need to benefit both sides equally.

Variety is the spice of life.

#4

I have been in this place before.

3 Likes
#5

Then surely you should propose a townsided neutral as well? Otherwise variety is surely not the spice of life.

#6

Nah those aren’t good for gameplay

1 Like
#7

Don’t forget to add the 1.2.0d update to the OP: the Scorned is only death immune once. An investigator with any sort of death immunity is still pretty powerful though.

#8

Then is it truly a neutral if it is scum sided?

#9

Yes. Unlike townsided Neuts there is a meaningful mechanical distinction.

2 Likes
#10

Yes because scum is two factions

Unseen or Cult and Neutral Killer

BD-aligned Neutrals are just more boring BD because the BD already don’t know their allies while the Unseen and Cult know theirs and the NK really has none

2 Likes
#11

Yeah that change really doesn’t address the issues I’ve seen brought up all that well and who the fuck is gonna waste two nightkills on a Scorned

By that point they’ll have gotten at least two investigations off, if not all three

1 Like
#12

I suppose I don’t really have any issues with the rework proposed. I have an issue with adding scum-sided neutrals for their own sake. Scorned would fake-claim investigative usually beforehand and would also do so in this proposed rework.

My issue is the lack of neutral fake-claims there are for scum besides the obvious alchemist, and even with the rework they are now no longer death immune. With the traditional scorned you could at least get a mislynch off and feign Scorned that has won

#13

Neutrals are not fake-claims and will never be fake-claims.

Is it possible in a game every now and again? Yes.

Should it always be viable? Hell no, claiming non-BD should always be risky.

1 Like
#14

Townsided neutral are trash. Old merc was just another town in all but name apart from his NK possibility.

Alch is a townsided neutral anyway lol.

2 Likes
#15

inb4 lock #2

I like this new scorned, it looks (feels?) like the original where it was against BD and helped evils a lot more.

1 Like
#16

I really feel like there is a way to have our cake and eat it too

#17

Sadly that’s usually not the case but

You are welcome to try my friend :+1:

#18

What do you mean by this?

If you’re actually talking about cake cake is good

#19

AKA having a true neut that furfills the original purpose of scorned

#20

What do you think if they just removed stalk from Scorned and added something along the lines of maid spy?

It’s not very inventive, but befitting of the class type