Corrupt Votes FM - Day 6 (3/15) - Town wins by voting out town

[clonedcheese]

words be hard
clarifications:

@clonedcheese

They have themselves pointed out that it was AtE-y

From a neutral standpoint their spiel yesterday was NAI
Which is a problem

@clonedcheese

more went on

I’m not really connecting how you went from “vote derps” to “not vote derps”
reading time i guess

[clonedcheese]

@Arete

re-read

yessir
or ma’am
or the gender neutral equivalent that I have yet to learn

@Arete

EoD1 from roughly the point where I started pushing to CFD onto Wazza and pay attention to what Light does

and consider whether what he’s doing makes any sense whatsoever in a world where my push on Wazza were a planned bus

…I’ll keep this in mind, but this isn’t really the point of contest right now, is it?

[Arete]

@clonedcheese

I’m not really connecting how you went from “vote derps” to “not vote derps”

my original reason for considering voting Derps was more or less ‘if Derps is Mafia and we misexe today then he can buy vig and win’

as the day actually went on and I considered Derps’s actions, I came to the conclusion that he probably wasn’t actually a wolf, and separately that Light probably was a wolf

ultimately I decided that I would rather pursue my actual reads then hedge against ‘if he’s scum then he can autowin’

[clonedcheese]

rereading time

see you individuals tomorrow because y’all gonna go to sleep

everyone else also should to avoid another PKR last night

[Arete]

@clonedcheese

…I’ll keep this in mind, but this isn’t really the point of contest right now, is it?

I mean

Light and I are blatantly unaligned at EoD1

like as far as I can tell the actual “points” you’re raising today is ‘Arete was strawmanning’ which isn’t really true, like I think you think it’s true because you think your arguments against me are good but actually your arguments against me suck which is why I’m treating them as if they suck, and … whatever your point on Derps is? like as far as I can tell your point is ‘Arete said at the start of the day that they might vote Derps, and if Derps had been voted out scum would have won’ but you’re completely ignoring the fact that when it came down to it at EoD, with multiple people saying they were willing to vote Derps, I strongarmed the vote onto Light over Derps because I’d concluded that Derps was probably villa, like as far as I can tell you just do not actually have an explanation for why I did that that makes sense with the rest of your worldview

[clonedcheese]

deadchat and specchat is yelling at me to push harder or stop being stupid
im inclined to think the 2nd one
aaaa

[Arete]

@PokemonKidRyan
@Appelsiini

it would be helpful to me in sorting you if you would walk me through your play this game, as much as you remember of what you did, and explain what you were thinking/what your perspective was/the thought process behind your actions (like as in the things you’ve done in general, not just points stuff, to be clear) (Appel I know you were only in it for a couple days, just talk about it for the days you were in the game)

example of what I mean from another game, hopefully it's clear enough what I'm looking for? (yours doesn't have to be as much of a wallpost, but more detail will be more helpful)

@Arete

okay

so I’m going to try to walk you through the thought process behind my actions, I guess

so on D1 I was mostly trying to find a strong towncore so that I could solve by PoE + pick good ritual targets + make good decisions about who to target with my actions, since it’s obviously important that I collect pure blood, if it would be helpful I can try to quote specific posts that demonstrate my thought process but they’re also just in my Iso, you can find them for yourself if you want to, so for instance I (?probably? correctly) cleared DryBones based on his meta, and (incorrectly) cleared Kyo. On D1 I collected blood from DryBones because he was almost certainly a villager based on meta + my personal experience with him (I’ve played with him on other sites, I wasn’t just going based off of Alice’s read here) but I was thinking at the time that he was a good ritual because he was both obvious town and kind of useless (meaning that my time window for being able to get his blood would be limited). I wasn’t sure whether to collect blood + no-action or drain blood + drink, I decided to collect blood + no-action because my slot was kind of contentious and I thought that draining three blood + drinking was likely to kill town if I had good reads and someone decided to check me and I thought that draining four blood + drinking was only going to do something if heretics decided to visit me, which I couldn’t count on. I was mostly trying to decide between Apprentice and Appelsini as the lynch targets on D1, I scumread Apprentice because he was much less solvey than in other games I’ve seen him in (I didn’t want to say this at the time because Anime was still ongoing, but he was a lot solvier in Anime where he was town) and his reads were basically just restating consensus statements, and Appel because a lot of her thought process felt fake/forced.

On D2 when we were choosing the ritual target I initially went for Italy because the whole ‘ritual Italy get free peek’ think sounded really good and he seemed ?probably? legitimate, but towards EoD his ‘haha but I could be the Lamb’ jokes were starting to make me nervous that he actually was because that’s the sort of joke that Lamb!Italy would think was really funny to make, I didn’t initially want to CFD to Kyo when we were both in the same four-person thunderdome (instead I wanted Marshal based on his IC claim, which I saw as most likely coming from an actual IC ) but went along with the Kyo CFD because Italy had made me really nervous and I saw Apprentice as the most likely fake Blood Mage by far (so the thunderdome wasn’t really factoring into my reads).

After Kyo flipped I was obviously not super happy about it, I decided the best thing to do was to look through his interactions to try to re-evaluate my reads since clearly I was badly wrong about the gamestate, I do think I managed to legitimately clear some people off of that but I might have miscleared sulit. When Vul subbed in I tried especially hard to read him because in the past I’ve been really good at reading him, it took me a little while but eventually he was able to make some posts that in my experience he would only be able to make as a villager in order to correctly clear him. I used my reads-in-general + associations with Kyo to try to make a PoE for the two starting non-Kyo non-traitor heretics and came up with Apprentice/Marshal/Wispmelia, I saw Apprentice and Marshal as unlikely to be W/W because why would Apprentice thunderdome himself with his wolf partner, and furthermore thought Kyo interactions looked the best for Apprentice. Since I thought the two starting not-traitor heretics were all in the Marshal/App/Wispmelia pool and that Marshal and App weren’t W/W that meant that Wispmelia had to be a starting heretic, so I started pushing her (this was after Amelia subbed in and did a bunch of super wolfy things like talking about how we wouldn’t know if she was starting or converted if she flipped wolf), and her response to my pressure was bad and also Marshal was defending her, when he was one of the other three people in my ‘starting heretic’ pool so I was like ‘HMMMMMMMMMM’ but I decided to push Amelia over Marshal because I was more confident in that read while the Marshal read was more based on associatives. Marshal was also making me nervous at that point because he was doing a lot of the things that he’s specifically talked about doing when he’s trying to pocket me, which IIRC I pointed out at the time. Anyways, we were pretty obviously behind even if Amelia was a hit, so I decided to drain blood from three people, which would give me four stacks of blood total. I didn’t want to take it from only two people (making three in total) because in that case if Amelia was a miss I was likely going to get visited by investigatives/offensives and if she was a hit there was a decent chance I’d be visited by protectives, the first one being especially bad because if too many visited me I could just accidentally send us past parity. I chose katze/Alice/Vul as my three targets, I don’t actually remember why I went with Alice and in hindsight if I could do that again I’d have gone with Italy but at the time I kind of forgot that Italy existed, Vul I was confident was a villager from talking to him and katze was also very villagery, I thought about you (Braixen) but at the time I had you still as a possible convert.

Night 2 I drank blood and hoped really hard that scum would visit me + that the blood was pure, even though at that point it was unlikely that both those things were true. Also I asked N.1 if Elixir of Blood kills could have deathnotes, since the OP said deathnotes could be submitted on a kill, and apparently they could (which is sort of weird because they aren’t targeted attacks but he’s the host not me) so I made a deathnote that said ‘Arete was here’ so I’d know for absolute certain if I’d killed anyone + be able to semi-prove myself. Also overnight I tried to re-evaluate my reads, because for Wispmelia to flip town I had to have miscleared someone. You can see my thought process for that in my logs dump at the start of the day, towards the end when I was running out of time it basically displays my thought process in real time.

Summary

Today I really didn’t want us to screw up and ritual scum again, I did ~math~ with everyone else about what each ritual type would mean for us numbers-wise and that’s part of why I wanted to go with a kat ritual, it was making me nervous that Marshal was pushing for it when he was thunderdomed with kat but kat was being super villagery particularly towards EoD and I didn’t really want to try another CFD. That vote was actually almost certainly a good vote, as in a vote on a villager, just obviously it didn’t work out. Also when people were talking about ritualling me I updated my logs just in case I got ritualled. I switched the kill ritual onto Wazza because he was being super wolfy and the vote ritual onto Braixen because if I accidentally gave it to a wolf that would be really bad and I didn’t super trust Braixen’s reads but I trusted his alignment (they had previously been on App and Marshal respectively, both of which were holdovers from D2).

I was doing a Duolingo Polish lesson while I waited for the results of the ritual so it took me a couple minutes to see the result, the first thing I saw was a red rolecard and I was upset with myself for misreading kat except then two seconds later my brain caught up enough to actually read the name and instead it was like ??how?? did Marshal??? get ritualled?? although I figured out that one pretty quickly. Since the Marshal ritual happened I’ve been trying to reevaluate my reads and figure out (a) who I can trust (b) who I can still trust, I want to try to look more at Marshal’s spew to figure out who isn’t W/W with Marshal but it’s hard because I don’t know for sure if he was converted or starting. I do think I’ve managed to clear a few people as not converted but overall this situation kind of sucks.

@an_gorta_pratai I’m less concerned about your slot, I’d appreciate it if you could do this but it’s less “urgent” that you do it since I’m already pretty sure about your slot being town, if you think your time would be more usefully spent doing something else I won’t be like ‘you are wolf ’

[Arete]

aret sleep

see you all tomorrow

[an_gorta_pratai]

@clonedcheese

…i piled onto Arete though?
Im confused as what you’re trying to say here

I am dumb then

@clonedcheese

Current top scum:

Me: Arete
Arete: PKR
Lemon: PKR
PKR: Appel
Gorta: Appel (I think)

Why would Arete bus both teamates instead of pushing PKR or derps? That’s my only Caveat here

[PokemonKidRyan]

Sure, ezpz for me tbh.

The inner machinations of my mind

I will run through my D1. D1 I mostly wanted to do a reaction test to see if I could force scum into buying votes from me D2, since they would only get 1 and I would gain coins to use in future rounds. My read on you and Alice was quite and has been persistent since then. I decided to make this read because I know that solving you both early on is good because the later games go on, the more deepwolf paranoia begins so by just getting it done with, I was able to move on and focus onto others.

I also interacted more with people who I struggle to read, such as Cheese and Trochi. In the end I misread Trochi because some posts felt disingenuine and I think in retrospect my scumread on Cloned was a bit fast, though I still dislike how they handled Alice being the claimed neut and voting them for a significant time.

N1, I chose to not buy anything. I know that based on discussion I should have bought the tri vote but since I had planned D2 to do the whole bluff thing, I had to withhold from doing it then. I had considered whether thugging was good but there was not enough information to go off. Another reason I did not buy anything was because vote power would be high on D2 so I felt like it would not impact anything. I also used N1 to think over my reads some more as by then I had decided to let Wazza stay alive and just be someone for me to read later on.

D2, I went with the bluff but quickly changed it when I realised how scummy it would be once revealed that it was all a lie and the amount of time that I had wasted. I panicked due to the lie that I would be suspicious so I aimed to have it so that I could buy something, the triplevoter on the following night. I decided to joke about with Alice because it was still early on in the day and I do not regret that as I think it kept the thread pleasant.

I also did it so I could appear as my usual town self because I wanted to not be mislynched and so far it seems that it had worked. Both Alice and Arete at the time had agreed that I was likelier doing it as town than scum. I know it might be a bit unusual, but I wanted to use the meta to my advantage so I could live and actually do stuff.

Cloned and I had more interactions due to me suspecting them, but, this day was also when I did say my suspicions on the Eli slot which now holds Appel. I said I would likely miss EoD and I did. I correctly read Conduit though which made me feel proud despite the lynch going poorly.

N2, I got triplevote because, well, yeah. I kinda had to at that point.

D3, I very clearly had forgotten a bit about Eli and nobody really questioned it. I made a readslist and explained them. It was not the best since based off my current reads, it would mean I had 4 people wrong and 1 person fully missed off. I voted cheese because I was thinking they were scum, still from the paranoia of cheese having voted Alice and only really done that D1. I thought it was sufficiently scummy to continue my SR on them without just full reevaluation without bias.

N3, chose to buy nothing. Had no reason to do so and only 5 coins left. I started to feel a bit pissed off that I was on no wagons so had no spare coins at any other point.

D4, was honestly kinda a clusterfuck due to the forums going down and it killed most of the motivation I had. We had a usual fun me v Seth thing and I did not realise Call was Seth nor did I realise Lemon subbed for Alice, or, at least I forgot it later on and just thought of it like another slot which would be good for solving a slot had it not been the neut claim lol.

I tried to explain away my dumbness using sleep deprivation because, lets be honest, yall know I rarely ever get enough sleep and I thought that it would be thought of in a positive way because I was just being honest instead of making shit up.

Seth asked me to analyse Light because he kept saying we were a scumteam, some of which was based off false narrative for example the chart Light made, Seth said was made for this game in scumchat which I dismissed Seth for. I did not end up placing a vote for EoD but as I said I always would have voted Light over Arete so I at least spiritually on the wagon. The reason for this again was rest.

N4 I chose to buy triplevoter as now, votes are fucking important as I realised when I was analysing the possible results come the night end. Which is what I said a bit into today.

D5 so far I have attempted to poe everyone which I think is just as effective as deep analysing one slot in an ISO dive because I have known that I can be wrong when doing it that way so thought to try something new here which conceptually should be similar but hopefully will have different results.

post edit, put in a spoiler because holy fuck that is a lot of text.

[PokemonKidRyan]

Also honestly diving into my own mind with what I remember in around half an hour is kinda a highlight and if this works out to help sort my slot then I need to remember, or be reminded, to do this in other games because this felt actually kinda nice.

Thanks Arete and have a nice rest.

[an_gorta_pratai]

but Wazza and Light were clearly signalling to Alice

Wazza

@Wazza

Nah, I think Arete is Town

@Wazza

I don’t think scum would direct themselves instantly into getting everybody to get the Triplevoter. It’s pretty simple, they’d be putting themself in a very bad spot.

@Wazza

Side Scum so we can lynch you :^)

this is a joke please stick with Town even though some who may not even be town are annoying

@Wazza

Townread:
Arete - Pretty obvious. Town motivations, pushing town forward. Eh, they’re just a powertown.

Townlean:
Eli - I guess? More Null but I need a Townlean here.
Surge - sigh

Scumlean:
SDA - Lack of posting is strange from Derps
Trochilidae - The Vig claim was either a joke or a mistake on Chili’s part. Not a scumslip but a mis-reading. Either way, the way they did it feels off from my POV and unlike the Chili I’ve seen before.

Neutral:
Alice

Light

@Aelin

@Alice what’s to stop you from saying “oh yeah I’ll be Town lol” and then just choosing mafia?

@Aelin

Meh. Actually, disregard this. I no longer care.

@Aelin

If we get three scum and game isn’t over, huzzah, Alice turned mafia.

@Aelin

Mind meld congrats

@Aelin

once again, flashback to CFM2

@Aelin

Eh. That’s fair.

@Aelin

Also
Giving reads with 225 posts is lame
Anyway, I’m kinda liking Arete because, I’m the absence of high amounts of content, they’re still trying to make reads on people (but honestly I’m just so fucking hilarious I can make good jokes as all alignments so)

@Aelin

Tentative Towncore
Arete
Insanity

@Aelin

Problem is there hasn’t really been enough content for me to do ISO’s on anyone else

@Aelin

Wait, if neut joins scum, what happens? Do they like… join the scumchat? I feel like that would be kinda OP because it’d just be like “Okay well n2, neut didn’t join us, looks like we’re good to kill em”

@Aelin

At this point, I’d say my towncore is myself, Arete, Seth, and Leafia. I have already made my argument, Seth is, quite obviously, in his townmeta, and Leafia has been trending upwards for most of day 2 despite being mostly inactive day 1.

@Aelin

I just realized
did cloned admit to pushing agenda against Arete

@Aelin

Also, looking at OP, it’s an 11v3 ± 1, is that actually super scumsided? asking for a friend who happens to be making a setup

@Aelin

So 10v3 is really unbalanced?

@Aelin

Arete, I’m about to vote, just a warning.

@Aelin

Arete doublevoter/nonvoter pog

@Aelin

What is your read on Arete now that Conduit has flipped V?

@Aelin

Either way, I’m not sold on an Arete wagon today. Going “they’re not dead and it’s D4” as a reason for a vote is so illogical it’s not even funny. The results of their wagons are a bit more alarming, but one could say the same for me. I’m 1/3 and wasn’t even on the D1 Wazza wagon.

@Aelin

I think a lot of people have stated paranoia over Arete, myself included, but I restate that just because they haven’t died doesn’t make them auto-scum.

@Aelin

Wazza flipped scum is what happened, Arete. It suddenly goes from ‘piling onto a mislynch wagon’ to ‘correctly voting out a scum member’.

@Aelin

My PoE is tunneling Arete? OwO was ist das ?

@Aelin

I will only vote for Arete if it is a matter of self-preservation.

@Aelin

I’m not asleep because I’m lame

I kinda gave my PoE earlier but overall I’m at

Surge
Arete
Lemonfairy
Appelsiini
PokemonKidRyan
an_gorta_pratai
clonedcheese
SirDerpsAlot

@Aelin

Couldn’t scum just… pointcheck them?

@Aelin

And now I’m really fucking paranoid thanks Arete

@Aelin

Arete
I am sorry if you’re town but I have to self-pres here
/vote Arete

These are very posts mentioning Alice and Arete from both flipped scum

[an_gorta_pratai]

Do these look like partner-y interactions?

[an_gorta_pratai]

Could this interaction be a signal?

@Arete

hi Alice

@Arete

why should I believe that you’re actually going to choose the town wincon

@Arete

fuck if Alice is claiming 3p there’s like a 50 percent chance that I’m dying N1

rip

mech bs

@Arete

12v3 Mountainous is generally considered balanced but is slightly scumsided (in reality, not just in expectation), 11v4 Mountainous is incredibly scumsided even if one of the four is a lost wolf, this isn’t Mountainous but most of the mechanics favor scum (I’ve been trying to avoid pointing out ways that this is true because I don’t want to give scum ideas )

@Arete

10v3 is unbalanced if you have no PRs unless you’re playing with really good players, it can be balanced if you add PRs.

if you have more questions on game balance in full generality that aren’t relevant to this game can you ask in the War Room or DMs or something? I don’t want to clog up the thread

Arete on Light

@Arete

I feel like I can basically follow Light’s thought process this EoD although obviously that’s something to look at again in a couple days when we’ve had some flips

@Arete

Light

Why I was clearing Light: I was sheeping Alice Light seemed to have posting that was mostly fairly decent (which his posting as scum usually isn’t). I also was soft-clearing him for how he handled the Wazza CFD at EoD – I think scum there would usually have jumped on for cred if they weren’t going to do anything to try to stop the wagon.

Do I think these reasons are good/still apply: Light’s another slot that’s dropped off a lot (like, even if I look purely at activity, he has 8 posts today, which is a lot less than he had in the early game). I’d put this in a similar space to Eli, but a bit above Eli because he has slightly favorable Wazza interactions (albeit nothing unfakeable)

@Arete

Town with reservations

PKR
Light
Gorta

@Arete

I’m going to make my own decision about who to vote once I’ve re-read everyone

Light’s definitely in my PoE although I kind of think Light/PKR in particular doesn’t really make sense as a team

@Arete

@Light

hey quick question

presumably, when you tried to CFD Conduit at EoD1, you saw something in their Iso that ‘can’t just be lol!newbtown’

but at SoD2 you were confused about why anyone was pushing them

what’s up with that

@Arete

Light

@Arete

so like

I don’t want to say that he’s 100 percent lockscum because only wolves defend wolves, because that’s kind of dumb

but I do think this is kind of sus, not because he was wrong, but because of how he handled it – part of that is for reasons that I’m going to get in later, but part of it is that the way he handled the Wazza wagon is different from how he handled every wagon not named ‘Wazza’

@Arete

where he does unvote, bring up the lack of resistance, and say that there not being much resistance points to Trochi being town

however, he brings a lot more resistance to the Wazza wagon (despite not, as far as I can tell, townreading Wazza?) than he does to the Trochi wagon, and additionally he doesn’t bring this resistance to other wagons – like, the cloned wagon was the top wagon for ?a while? (I don’t remember how long exactly) and yet he seemed basically unconcerned with that wagon and never brings up the possibility that it could be DADV

@Arete

like regardless of your alignment you’re always going to say ‘no, your case is wrong, this is why I did what I did,’ right

whereas other people can be like ‘no, Arete, this read is completely illogical and you’re bad’ or ‘wow, that makes a lot of sense, I’m going to vote Light’

I mean realistically probably what people are going to say is ‘this case makes sense but I still think you’re a wolf because tOwN cAn’T bE wRoNg and therefore this makes Light town’ and then self-congratulatory pat themselves on the back, and then proceed in postgame to act like they had absolutely zero responsibility for the resulting loss because they refused to actually make a proper attempt at reading me and instead just pretended I’m some sort of mysterious enigma that can only be read on the metric ‘were they wrong about the alignments of two players’

an odd comment

@Arete

I’m kind of scared that Leafia might be TMIing me V here

[an_gorta_pratai]

Looking back at both Light and Arete I could see some partner-y stuff, like when Arete TR’d Light for most of the game, but started SRing Light yesterday. They both equally push people like Conduit and Mole. I also recall Arete doubting that Light would flip a wolf.

examples of Arete doubting that Light flips wolf

@Arete

can people please please talk to me about this read

I’ve been wrong about a lot of things this game and I think if I’m wrong here we basically just lose in most worlds

@Arete

and I feel like the extent to which people have engaged with me today has been either

‘you were wrong a couple times so you are a wolf!!! dybu dabu dybu dabu’

or

‘vote Light or you are a wolf!’ (no offense Surge)

and I would like to be able to actually … talk through my reads and the reasoning behind them … so that I don’t mess up again

@Arete

okay Light

you’re probably going to think this is a dumb request

and I promise this isn’t some sort of trap where I’m like ‘this is LAMIST! you are lockscum!’

but could you, like, towncase yourself

like explain why you are town/why I should believe that you’re town

@Arete

okay

thank you

@Arete

it would be cool if people who are not Light could also give their thoughts

@Arete

part of what I’m trying to do write now is get other people’s thoughts on the Light case so that I don’t mess things up again

@Arete

it would be cool if anyone else would talk to me about this

I don’t want to be wrong and my reads have been mostly not great this game

@Arete

• I’ve been wrong a lot this game and I might be wrong here
• a lot of the main things that are making me sus of him are basically ‘hard-defended a wolf for flimsy reasons despite not townreading him, and treating every villager that came under pressure totally differently’ and that’s unfortunately not outside of the village range of people on this site
• I can construct viable wolfteams that don’t include him and I don’t really have a way of ruling out a Derps/(pick your favorite person in the PoE team) (singling out Derps here because he’s the Most Unreadable)

@Arete

Light is … obviously not someone I suspect of bussing

@Arete

so if you had to guess, what alignment do you think Light is?

@Arete

I’d been holding off on ever making an actual public read on Alice because I was hoping that ‘she is Alice and claiming to be townsiding’ would be enough that scum would kill her (which is obviously +EV) but I did, actually, kind of think Aliceslot could be scumsiding

at the very least play under the assumption that it is because doing that can’t possibly make things worse

that said Lemonfairy’s made me feel generally better about that slot

Like Arete keeps saying “what if I am wrong” after making a massive wall post on why Light is scum after townreading them for most of the game.

@Arete

I feel like I can basically follow Light’s thought process this EoD although obviously that’s something to look at again in a couple days when we’ve had some flips

Arete goes from this

@Arete

so like

I don’t want to say that he’s 100 percent lockscum because only wolves defend wolves, because that’s kind of dumb

but I do think this is kind of sus, not because he was wrong, but because of how he handled it – part of that is for reasons that I’m going to get in later, but part of it is that the way he handled the Wazza wagon is different from how he handled every wagon not named ‘Wazza’

@Arete

where he does unvote, bring up the lack of resistance, and say that there not being much resistance points to Trochi being town

however, he brings a lot more resistance to the Wazza wagon (despite not, as far as I can tell, townreading Wazza?) than he does to the Trochi wagon, and additionally he doesn’t bring this resistance to other wagons – like, the cloned wagon was the top wagon for ?a while? (I don’t remember how long exactly) and yet he seemed basically unconcerned with that wagon and never brings up the possibility that it could be DADV

@Arete

• he spent the entirety of EoD1 trying to shift the wagon off of Wazza despite not expressing a townread on Wazza. obviously villagers can be wrong/defend wolves but the extent to which he defended Wazza doesn’t make sense given that he never actually called Wazza town
• his treatment of Wazza is inconsistent with how he treated literally everyone else this game that he supposedly townread, he tried as hard as he could to defend Wazza but did basically nothing to defend Mole when Mole was getting voted out despite allegedly disagreeing with the wagon

to this
I am also baffled that the wolves killed Seth over Arete. If Seth was alive and Arete town I feel like Seth would have death tunneled Arete, which would have made the scum win easily with 3 people who highly suspect Arete. Seth was also the most locktown out of me,cheese, and Seth.

[an_gorta_pratai]

Anyway, I do think Arete has some partner potential with Light, but I am going to bed soon. Tomorrow I want to look at PKR,Cloned, and Appel

[Appelsiini]

I just got home, I’ll do that in an hour or so. How long until EoD?

[Lemonfairy]

@clonedcheese

First of all this seems like an admission of guilt

The fact that you’re voting for PKR is just another reason why i think PKR is town, i have other ones

How is it an admission of guilt? I just find it baffling that you would put so much weight on your suspicion of my read that it would influence your read on someone else. It’d be fine if you were convinced by my explanation or something but your reason seemed to be based on your scum-read on me and general distrust towards me. That reason would make sense if you thought I were on the scum team and had insider info but I’m just a neutral and there’s only 1 scum left so I’m struggling to see where you’re coming from.

If you have other reasons to town-read PKR, I’d love to hear them because I’m definitely not convinced by the reasons you’ve given so far.

[Lemonfairy]

actually, hold that thought
let me catch up with thread first

[Lemonfairy]

@clonedcheese

I think lemon is scum here, most importantly for their vote on PKR first thing today with the note “gg town” - i really cant see this as anything else than an invitation for scum to vote similarly. Why would anyone vote so quickly on something they realize is simply “you’re the only one i dont have a read on” and not take the vote down after their positions have softened?
I dont see much point debating this, we kill lemon tmrw if we survive tonight.

*only one I don’t have a town read on
PKR has thus far not shown any towniness that I have caught strong or weak hints off everyone else. Surge got NK’d and their top suspects were Light and PKR. I had a similar lack of town vibes from Derps before EOD4 but derps flipped town after getting mod-killed. Maybe I was being over-confident in my suspicion of PKR, but I genuinely believe they are the most likely candidate to be scum.

Also, considering the fact that I was the second to jump on Light’s vote wagon after Surge, I really question your scum read on me, which seems to come from paranoia more than anything else. If I were really scum-sided, I would just sit back and not say anything and vote last rather than start the day off by voting someone, thereby drawing attention to myself. Either way, your main reason for defending PKR thus far has been because I voted them and since you’re sure I’m scum, PKR must be town. Such logic makes absolute no sense to me but I appreciate your analysis on other people in this post.