Corrupt Votes FM - Day 6 (3/15) - Town wins by voting out town

okay

are … there specific questions you want to ask me to help you evaluate for yourself whether it is true

1 Like

How many hours do we have left?

explain

explain

4.5 currently

Damnit, I have to think about this while dead tired

Good morning

Time to ISO both Gorta and Arete… when I get out of bed

sure

the obvious thing is – I’m not, actually, good at acting villagery as scum, and mostly I don’t try to (the exception is NK because NK doesn’t have TMI and can literally just play as a villager). this one is kind of hard to explain because most people aren’t super familiar with the difference but if you read my posts it is clear that I don’t know who the wolves are and that’s not, actually, something I can fake. in particular, I have a hard time faking my thought process as scum, and especially faking any form of reevaluation.

when I play scum I really really hate to bus, I almost never do it (like, the rare times when I’ve attempted to bus are ‘I have a completely useless teammate who everyone thinks is a wolf and who has obvious meta tells’) and even then I rarely do it, like, in FoL 28 I vaguely tried to bus Italy but wound up reversing that and hard defending him even though he was literally the most blatant wolf in existence. I’d be especially unlikely to bus here – like, on D1, people were mostly townreading me and basically expecting me to die at night, bussing Wazza wouldn’t really help me were I scum (since people were already townreading me) and would raise more questions about why I didn’t die, as well as making the neut more likely to townside source 1 (was N2 convert) source 2 source 3 (was N3 convert) source 4

these also … aren’t the nightkills I make as scum basically ever. cloned’s been talking about how I could in theory be scum megabraining everyone but killing off all the people harddefending you and letting the people who’ve been tunnelling you since D1 live is not in fact mega-brain, that’s zero-brain. this one is harder to give meta examples of because most games on this site are PR-heavy in a way that ends up dominating the nightkills but as an example I would give Candlelight – Marshal was tunnelling me all of D1, I killed him N1, and everyone just ignored him. like, in this case I wouldn’t even have needed to ““implicate”” myself with a nightkill as cloned was top wagon on D1 until I pushed a CFD onto Wazza and, were I scum, I would have just … let him die

lastly, Light and I don’t actually make sense on a team together. like, if you re-read EoD1, I was trying to CFD Wazza while Light was trying his hardest to resist the Wazza elim. it makes no sense to have the more townread member of a wolfteam hard-bus the third member and the less townread member hard-defend the third member, like, there is no world in which that is a remotely good plan. the way Light and I treated each other on D4 also doesn’t make sense for partners, like, I think a lot of people are getting caught up on the fact that Light was defending me, but were we W/W there would be no reason to have one of us bus the other and the other one harddefend them.

to touch briefly on the main reasons people have for suspecting me, as far as I can tell:

‘you’ve been wrong a lot/you pushed villagers/you defended wolves’

yes, I have. my reads are in fact not perfect! in the champs finale, I harddefended literally every wolf. pointing out the fact that I have in fact been wrong is … not really evidence of anything without looking at why I was wrong (which, in this case, was because I don’t know who the wolves are :upside_down_face:)

‘why aren’t you dead yet?’

a couple reasons, probably. the first is that people (especially cloned, but not just him) have been tinfoiling me since D1, and so wolves probably thought they could get me misexe’d.

the second is that besides Wazza my early game reads weren’t great! like, I lightly TR’d Light, Gorta, and Eli on D1, and more strongly townread cloned. Regardless of who the last wolf is I was not a threat to them once Wazza was dead.

‘maybe you were bussing, how did you just CFD a wolf like that??’

I wanted to save one of my townreads (cloned) so I picked a player who was pinging me and who other people mostly seemed to agree with my suspicion of them (meaning the CFD might actually work).

‘Wazza and Light defended you’

yes, they did. it turns out that sometimes wolves call villagers town! (but more seriously – even when I was the top wagon vote-total-wise at EoD4, Light showed literally no concern that my flip might make him look bad. you can compare that with how he treated Wazza, who he completely avoided calling town even when he was trying to push away from him)

‘you’ve been strawmanning my arguments against you’

your arguments mostly suck and I’m not patient enough to pretend they don’t. I’m sorry if you felt I was strawmanning you but like, I’m sorry because I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings, not because I think their arguments were deserving of me … acting like I thought they’re good when they aren’t, or something. in this post in particular I tried to be minimally strawmanny so if you have some concern that I didn’t address feel free to ask me about it.

Gorta’s response here is pretty good actually, the thought process here gives a genuine feel. So you’re saying that the way you would take Cloned’s pushing into consideration is to kill him and frame Arete for it, instead of keeping him alive.

This was my starting point, I thought I made it clear there. Right now I’d say Arete is the wolf because some of the things they’ve done seem like a direct attempt to make me look worse – like immediately saying the nightkill makes the most sense from me BEFORE they even analyzed it, and using arguments that are based on assumptions (such as the argument that I must’ve killed Leafia right after subbing in.)

you’re misrepresenting my argument

it’s not ‘Appel in particular was responsible for this nightkill’ it’s ‘this nightkill isn’t a nightkill that I think Gorta would make’

You used that argument to back your claim up. (“I on the other hand do weird kills, and we’ve seen them happen with Leafia and now Lemon”)

I mean

are you trying to claim that you would have literally no influence on the nightkill that happened the night you were subbing in (assuming you were scum)

because it sort of sounds like that’s what you’re trying to claim

I don’t know how angleshooty this is, but I was busy that day. Hence why I didn’t get to EoD on time.

like I’m legitimately confused about what you’re arguing here

like, you’re saying that I’m a wolf for saying that you would be more likely than Gorta to kill Leafia, even though the kill happened the night after you subbed in

but … yes? I do think that if you are a wolf you would have had some role in deciding who to kill N2? that is in fact what I believe here?

okay

so you think that’s a counterargument to my argument that you would kill Leafia and Gorta wouldn’t, fine

but … I don’t particularly have an idea of how busy you were that day … so why would me failing to take into account how busy you might have been be wolf-AI

No, I’m just not letting you back your arguments up with things that don’t make sense. Granted, I suppose you not knowing isn’t AI after all.

Let’s approach it this way. Do you think Light would’ve agreed to kill someone completely random that was not a consensus V, just because I said so? I stated in thread that I hadn’t read much prior to that, so I didn’t really have an idea of what was going on.

And sure, before you say anything about Light filling me in on things, why would anything like that lead to a supposedly weird kill? “Wazza got cuddled, X scumreads Y and Z is townread” “Okay, let’s kill Leafia.”


In any case, could I still ask you to re-evaluate Gorta if you really are town? You’ve stated yourself that there have been lots of things you were conflicted about, and things that wouldn’t make sense from a wolf, and I feel like you’re ignoring all those things in order to push a scumread on me. I don’t remember you ever going back to those points like you’ve done with Gorta.

I don’t know

I’m not in wolf chat, I don’t know what happened

maybe Light was wholly responsible for that kill! it could be true!

also the Leafia kill was after the Conduit cuddle, not the Wazza cuddle

I am trying to reevaluate

admittedly a lot of the way that is manifesting is ‘spending way too much time thinking about this game during my bio class’s birdwatching walk’ which doesn’t really translate super well into text

but I have, in fact, been trying to reevaluate, and it keeps leading me back to you

I didn’t want to make it to MyLo, I was hoping to get killed N1, and here I am anyway and I am doing my best but I acknowledge that maybe my best won’t be enough and I’ll choose wrong

are there specific things about Gorta – or even about you – that you think I should be looking at that I might have overlooked

Summary

and frankly, if the last wolf is anyone other than you, I’m not looking forward to getting lectured by dead chat about how it was obviously [them] and I’m just bad for not seeing it

even if it is you then they’ll probably come up with a way to call me bad :upside_down_face:

I’ll defend you from dead chat if they yell at you, don’t worry. I think regardless of your alignment, you’ve been doing really well, because I did townread you for the entirety of D3/D4.

…If it turns out that Eli/I ended up hard defending all 3 wolves, that’d be the worst. I feel like I’d be the one that gets yelled at.

…okay this might be angleshooting, I’m not sure, but I’m going to need you to explain that quickedit :upside_down_face: