*great idea to vote them right now.
iāll get to that eventually
iāll get to that eventually
confirms no healers i suppose
i donāt really have any qualms with the target but i was also an obvious target so 
iām sure rat is clear
also thatās good to know
and kyo is not town because town kyo wouldāve been more patient with their vote instead of this performative bullshit
yeah iām self-resolving and tl confirms that i wasnāt healed and nobody claims healer so iām even more self-resolving
i explained why my dude
excellent point actually
if you had been there maybe this wouldnāt have happened
also i tried to cfd but i suppose thatās a moot point
if you want to kill light you should kill min first because min mechanically clears light
yeah iām sorry
yeah whatever you say
iām self-resolving so donāt waste time reading me
this is pepega
lmao
what
i mean i believe this because youāre clear but lmao
this is true
min is also the top poster
has min been mafia before? i got the impression they were fairly new to the game
ok iām caught up
i have a case prepared on one person who i think should be dunked today, who i think iām correct about and who i think is mechanically the best yeet as well as socially
but we have over 24 more hours to discuss this so i think iām going to āholster my caseā for the time being
thatās almost entirely useless unless they experience a massive tone shift when mafia tbh
but thanks for the info
relevant information
i am one with the town. i am one with the mafia. i am the 3p. i am the 4p. i am the 5p. i am transcended through role and alignment. i pull words and letters from mafia posts towards me, like a gravitational black hole, twisting and turning them, and making something new. something beautiful.
i am the monkey that wrote romeo and juliet on a typewriter. the one in the million. with one hand.
i have written the greatest mafia post in the entire world. this? this aināt it. this is just a tribute
alright, iām tired of waiting, so iām just going to lay down the law right now.
kyo is the nk and needs to die today.
but vulgard, why is kyo the nk?
numerous reasons.
-
kyoās behavior throughout the game. he has definitely helped us kill wolves during every eod. the problem is that he has not done much else beyond asking people to sheep him and, well, helping us to kill at least one wolf at eod. he has helped us on a micro level (helping to kill a wolf socially), but not on a macro level (solving the entire game). that is indicative of the perspective of someone who wants to be townread ājust enoughā (āhe helped us kill at least one wolf, heās townā), but who also doesnāt want the entire mafia team to crumble too quickly (ābecause i donāt want town to be too strongā). he has helped us kill wolves, but not solve the entire game, that is the main point, and i think villager kyo would go beyond what he has already done to do the latter.
-
kyoās behavior today. first, there is his hesitation to claim and apparent paranoia that a lying darkness type of thing exists. firstly, this isnāt a sentiment he has ever voiced before. second, it was in response to me pressuring him to claim. he did not want to claim because his claim will make it apparent heās a killing role. him softing it before doesnāt really change that. he ends up claiming 2-shot desperado and claiming the kill on astand, but the problem is that nk couldāve easily made that kill, considering a lot of town were dead back then already and nk needed a mafia to die as well. besides, the whole paranoia thing about ādonāt ask everyone to claimā reads as fake and performative. i donāt believe he was worried about that for a second. he knows there are 7 nontown in the setup and one of them is the nk (ratās info), and 3 wolves have flipped, so itās 3 wolves + nk. the lying darkness thing was just a ploy to buy time and make himself seem towny ābecause heās paranoid!ā and the fact he claims desperado instead of vigilante is just to make the claim more believable, because it was confirmed that at least one town vig was alive and he likely didnāt want to claim the same role as eevee. again, trying to dodge and evade suspicion. and speaking of evadingā¦
-
eod 3. we wagoned at least one town there, two town if we believe minās claim. kyo did nothing to stop the wagons. kyo wasnāt even there during eod, for the first time in this entire game. with 3 mafia dead, it was okay for town to murder each other at that juncture. so he did not step in. however, i was bled, and i was bled after voicing my suspicion on kyo. i suspect that kyo was sitting there, but not saying anything, and he submitted the bleed action on me because he figured i should die (and because i was on his trail). you could say that ākyo wouldnāt bleed the person sussing him out!ā but to that i say ākyo is conveniently absent at eod for the first time in this game, and i get suddenly bled 10 minutes before the day ends.ā him being absent there is likely explainable by the fact he didnāt want to get accused of ābeing in the thread when the bleed happened.ā classic scum move.
-
pure poe. take a look at this claimlist.
everyone except eevee and kyo (and nightingale, who hasnāt fullclaimed in here openly) claimed roles without kp. iām 100% confident that kyo claimed the shot on astand for towncred. itās also 100% possible he made the shot. remember that he was like āi listened to your read, gorta, iām good, youāre good.ā clearly he was trying to pocket gorta there and make himself seem more trustworthy to the town. i do not believe for a second that town vigilante kyo writes that post, and then acts like he did today, where heās like āi donāt wanna fullclaim, lying darkness might exist, aaa.ā not only is this perspective incoherent, but both things are also very performative.
but going back to the claimlist. rat, myself, leafia and light have verified (?) actions that donāt really belong to a neutral killer. tl claiming watcher and min claiming hider also doesnāt really make sense for nk to do because they are very risky claims that could get ccād. gortaās claim is nonsensical but also a little too absurd to come from nk (he would be my 2nd suspect if not for kyo clearly trying to appease him and pocket him). kyoās treatment of him also says a lot.
the only people remaining are whysper, eevee and kyo. eevee is confirmed not nk by atnoname checking him āsame alignmentā with another town (probably a dead town) before he died, which i explained earlier. this version of parity cop could definitely find the nk, given the wording in the classcard, so this is a hardclear on eevee.
whysper could theoretically be it, but then you run into a problem. you are accusing dota of being nk, and dota played like a total potato for both d1 and d2, possibly attracting the attention of town kp and not really doing himself any favors socially. i donāt believe that someone who rands nk in this game does nothing. you want to stay afloat, which means you need to be in a decent position on a social level.
so, the only person remaining is kyo.
- pkr nightkill.
why would someone kill a person who was wrong about eevee being nk, someone who isnāt townspewed, someone in tinfoil territory? someone whoās afraid of a tracker. remember that pkr was in a neighborhood with me, and people knew this. people also knew that he was a tracker, and it was very obvious that i was paranoid of kyodaz at eod 3. knowing this, if kyodaz is the nk, he has a picture painted for him. āvulgard will ask pkr to track me. i donāt want to be tracked to a nightkill, itās going to severely limit my claim options and might get me killed.ā so he kills pkr.
itās exactly what happened. i did ask pkr to track kyo, and he was going to, and now heās dead. cloned being another dead town protective meant that kyo could do this safely, almost risk-free. and he had to do it, because otherwise, he would be tracked to a different nightkill and his hands would be mostly tied.
the nightkill choice doesnāt really make sense for mafia. they want to kill the clear people. like leafia. not pkr, who wasnāt townspewed and who didnāt have a massive impact on the game to begin with. and they ended up killing the parity cop there, probably picking up on the softs.
if the nk is anyone other than kyodaz, it doesnāt make sense to kill pkr either, because pkr is suspecting eevee (whoās town) of being nk and also hard tunneled on it. pkr being alive benefits the nk. they kill someone else there.
the only person who had a good reason to kill pkr there was exactly kyodaz, and thatās why he did it. kyodaz is the neutral killer. kyodaz needs to die today.
but vulgard, why are you nk hunting here??
killing nk is mechanically very optimal because it eliminates 1 non-town kp guaranteed. possibly more than 1 non-town kp if the nk in this setup has a multikill (which i find fairly likely, considering how many slots needs to die before nk wins the game). if we leave kyo, the nk, alive, he might kill 1-2 town tonight, or maybe even more. even if we manage to execute mafia tonight, we might still lose the game, which is unlikely, but not impossible.
we also canāt vig the nk. the nk is almost certainly death immune and we would we wasting eeveeās shot. we canāt roleblock the nk because they are probably roleblock immune as well. and they are non-town kp in a situation where we might lose the game tonight depending on who we kill today and how many town die in the night. if nk and mafia split their kills well, we get to parity by tomorrow, since iām guaranteed to die tonight. killing the nk is the best mechanical outcome for town, because it eliminates non-town kp guaranteed and prevents us from losing the game tonight no matter what. it is just impossible that mafia have enough kp to reach parity by themselves here. but with the nk, they probably do.
but vulgard, why is no one else the nk?
iāve already explained everything above. everything points to kyodaz, the ultimate serial killer or whatever his role does.
but vulgard, what about the mafia?
we have mechanical clears in rat, eevee, leafia, and light (assuming minās clear is legit). min might also be a clear depending if you believe them. the poe is outside of those people.
gorta only makes sense to be mafia if you believe him to be a mafia pr, considering eod2 wagons.
iām self-resolving.
the poe is whysper, tl, nightingale. thatās it, thatās how tight the poe is. unless you think mech misclears exist, then you can debate that after i die, but the poe is very tight and i donāt think itās wrong given the information we have. i donāt think mafia have wiggle room here. what we absolutely need to prevent is town losing the game tonight, and killing the nk today achieves that.
vulgard, what was the thing you were doing yesterday?
when i was bled, i had a gut feeling regarding kyo. i couldnāt really explain it at the time, but now i realize it. i subconsciously understood that he wasnāt there at eod, and i was bled all of a sudden while i was already paranoid about him. i wish i had cfded earlier, because then we wouldnāt have the nk problem right now, but it is what it is.
vulgard, why should we believe you?
iām town. i have verifiable action results. iāve helped to kill wolves and to clear multiple town members. iām also bleeding and i will die tonight 100% of the time, so this is the last opportunity for me to get a non-town out of the game before i inevitably perish. even if you somehow think iām mafia, it benefits town to get the nk out of the game just as much as it benefits mafia to do it. and like iāve already explained, killing the nk today gets rid of 1 non-town kp guaranteed, possibly more, thus preventing us from losing the game in case we donāt kill kyo and kill a town (or even if we donāt kill anyone, if the nk or the mafia have 2 kp tonight they can split).
why is this wall so poorly formatted?
because i canāt be bothered. sorry. the tl;dr is that kyodaz is the nk and i want him dead today, because if we leave him alive, weāre likely to lose the game.
what if youāre wrong?
given all of the evidence and whatās happened throughout the game, i really donāt think iām wrong. i am also not going to listen to kyo from this point forward. heās just the nk. his words mean nothing to me.
/vote KyoDaz @CRichard564 @Wazza
you donāt have to vote yet, but this always dies today. i accept no substitutes even if somebodyās openwolfing. we need to reduce kp to minimize the chances of town losing the game, and this is by far the best bet.
1 Like
and before someone yells at me for tunneling, or ānarrow pov narrow pov,ā the poe i offer you is whysper/nightingale/tl. outside possibility of gorta if heās a wolf pr, which i doubt, but which is technically possible. light clear is conditional on min being real, so revisit that later if you want.
eevee/leafia/rat are always, always town. never kill there.
thatās my solve. kill the nontown kp in kyo today. you can keep analyzing, because thatās always a good thing, but donāt even think about voting outside of kyodaz today.
kyo, you can openwolf when you get to the thread. iām not letting you live past this day phase.
he absolutely can.
rampage kills exist.
2 kp on nk exists.
nobody claimed the shot on centuries.
the centuries shot is conveniently unclaimed by anyone. kyo was quick to claim the astand shot for towncred, but not the other.
you would think that whoever made the centuries shot would claim that for towncred. or just because they are a town vig. but they are not doing that.
the reason is because itās the same person who killed astand, and claiming 2 simultaneous shots is very suspicious.
and the shot kyo claimed is better for him, because he can conveniently frame it as āhelping gorta.ā for towncred.
i think centuries mightāve been killed by proxy (rampage kill). centuries was possibly tailoring astand, since he inherited the tailor and astand looked bad after eod2.