Court Wizard changes are hurting the game

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Firstly I’d like to preface this post by saying I quite like the King changes. I think the new King stimulates exchange of information and communication and can catch people off guard if checks are used smartly.

My real issue with the new patch is the Court Wizard.

Tornado is a great ability if used properly, but nowadays it is designed to make games random and take the fun out of them.

First issue. Players will fidget and use Tornado. It’s the same issue Noble had with decree, sometimes a player would randomly block a suspicious person on night one just because they simply had nothing else to do. Court Wizards are doing the same, and it hurts.

Second issue. Players that don’t pay attention. I’ve had people die on me because a Court Wizard redirected my heals. Now, you can claim “players shouldn’t be bad” but the game shouldn’t be giving opportunities for players to make bad plays. This game is known for having a good community and being very understanding towards new players, and this change could add toxicity to the community and nobody wants that.

Third issue. How are we supposed to protect an outed Blue Dragon now? Ice Ward was great for that. Now if a Blue Dragon is outed, the only way to protect is through a lucky Drunk debauching the Mastermind or if the Blue Dragon happens to have a Mercenary. Maybe I’m wrong, but I can’t think of another scenario where this is possible. So this change has made the Cult Leaders better and Masterminds even stronger, since you can’t really stop them from converting, can you? So in cases of Sheriffs being outed, they become such an easy convert target.

I understand these changes were made because Court Wizard was a boring class to play, but I feel they need to be reconsidered, for the sake of the game.

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#2

People will use this ability badly, that doesn’t make the class bad. People will be idiots with Coldsteel etc

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#3

bad players will do things badly, I’ve also had games where I was a neutral king that had caught 3 cult (pre-king nerf), I had tested and been 99.9% sure butler was good, was also 80% sure pali claim was cult, I believed an alc claim. butler poisoned me, I said "OK this is good, butler just 100% proved himself, and we can now test the alc claim… so… butler blocks alc for 2 days, I die of poison, they execute the alc, cult wins… butler was not converted.

That’s a problem with that player, not with the butlers abilities. I am however really hoping they add a veterans que soon, say 100+ games played only. Half the classes in the game can royally screw over BD if played bad.

Knight (cold suicide)
King (bad calls with decide fate)
Noble (accidentally protect someone from vote the day before he’s discovered evil)
butler (occupy the wrong guy, call out the prince as occupy immune, poison a good king)
Drunk (occupy the wrong guy, act like a fool because they think they are supposed to roleplay actually being drunk)
Prince (bad calls in executions)
Psychic (out prince, relay dead cult/unseen/neutrals claims as gospel)
hunter (yolo wolves)
Princess (out prince as killer/off)
CW - blind tornado (or tornado people literally needing things like healing).

#4

It’s a very good class. However, in the hands of someone not very inexperienced it hinders Blue Dragon more than it helps.

It should either be restricted to ranked play whenever that’s added or only be playable by people with a 100 games or so played. Getting redirected over and over when you’re an investigative class early game is ridiculous.

#5

See my list… when you take out roles that aren’t more destructive to BD in the hands of a bad player… you’ve basically got sheriff, pali, and observer and physician. At some point the training wheels gotta come off and we gotta just admit, some games are going to be lost due to newbies making bad mistakes.

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#6

Then I think a Veteran queue like you suggested would be the best fix. Not trying to sound mean but I’d rather not play with people making my experience unpleasant every other game so they can learn. =/

#7

The problem is that each of those classes have a limited impact from a bad player. Knight only kills themselves, and at least they confirm a BD in the process. King only has one Decide Fate. Noble can’t prevent a player from being healed or get a BD accidentally killed (or accidentally suicide a Knight). And so on.

These random tornadoes flying around make it almost impossible for anybody to do their job. It’s not the possibility of bad plays that makes Tornado a problem, it’s that Tornado is especially likely to cause problems, and it allows one player to turn another player’s good play into a bad one.

I mentioned this in the Feedback section on the Discord, but I think they need to limit the Tornado and give the CW another minor ability to compensate for the reduction in power. My suggestion was to limit Tornado to 2-4 uses, move Ice Ward to a day skill (like the Alchemist’s Stoneskin), and then add in a new skill:
“Scrying Orb: 2 uses, night skill; You will learn a random piece of information that another player learns tonight. You won’t know who learned this information.”

This way, people won’t be spamming Tornado every night, and will save it for when they know they need to redirect something away from someone. And it gives an interesting information-gathering tool that could really shake things up.

#8

They definitely need something to do at night other than randomly tornado everyone and screw over BD with it.

#9

Court wizard tornado is amazing.

Almost every class can be used terribly for some stupid play. I have known butlers who just poison the king as soon as they can for no reason, hunters who say nothing so they can retribute and take out BD in the process, etc.

The solution is an advanced game mode, it would be the exact same but no new players allowed.

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