Court Wizard; Mimicry ability

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

This would be… a fairly large rework to Court Wizard.

I was thinking about what the Court Wizard is supposed to do, and I conclude that it’s primarily an “empowering” class; that is, it makes other people stronger, primarily by making them occ immune. The swaps are really only good for screwing over bd, so I think that should be dropped. As such, here’s my suggestion:

Court Wizard

Mimic: Choose two targets. You will use the first’s ability on the second tonight; if it’s a self-targetting ability or has a secondary target, the spell will target you instead/as well. This does not duplicate conversion effects.

Magic Shield: The target is immune to occupation tonight; occupation messages will appear to occupiers as though you didn’t cast the magic shield; your target will be alerted if you shielded them.

Basically, Mimic rewards you for identifying and communicating with your key bd members. Furthermore, if you can identify the assassin, you can kill him by mimicking his attack. If you can convince others to keep you informed of their actions, you can massively empower the bd by getting extra uses of limited abilites like window peek or wolf.

Magic shield is a modified barrier. It no longer protects from conversion, but in exchange it will alert the person you use it on when it protects them. If the person lacks occ immunity, the occupier will be told the occupy was successful (in order to avoid throwing off butler/drunk’s investigations).

#2

Literally lying in bed thinking about CW rn lol

Let me see what we have here

#3

Alright not a fan

Tornado is really strong when used correctly, and can be a massive game-changer if used appropriately.

Mimic is also almost as strong as Tornado with none of the skill. Not bad, but probably not a good replacement imo

As for the Magic Shield thing, it’s a weaker Barrier that confirms who the CW is. Not a fan of either of those changes.

2 Likes
#4

An interesting ability… Also shouldn’t copy kill affects either I think. Also what happens if there are two targets, assuming kills are duplicated (CL). Also, if you copied Reaper, would you get a soul?

Too weak. It doesn’t stop conversions and confirms you.

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#5

I don’t enjoy mimic. It allows you to confirm any classes at night, which no other class can. Unless you’re causing the targeted player to target someone else. For instance, let’s say 1 is a phys healing 2, but then you target him to also target 3, so he gets the alerts and all you get is you forced 1 to target 3. That could potentially work.

As for the new barrier, I don’t like it. It confirms CW and is completely inferior to mimic outside of confirming him.

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#6

Court Wizard should remain largely unconfirmable to keep it as a valid fakeclaim for scum.

2 Likes
#7

Current list of unconfirmable BDs (IE the only rational options to claim if you aren’t that class, or the exact converted form of that class)

Claimable
The Sheriff (Investigative), The Paladin (Investigative) - obviously putting both on the same row as it doesn’t really count as 2 since it’s an either or option)
The Physician (Support)
The Knight (Killer)

grey areas - classes that have semi-confirmable abilities, but are flawed enough that it isn’t totally unbelievable to not have a confirmation midgame

The Court Wizard (Support) - Tornado is semi-confirmable
The Princess (Investigative) - Guessing a 1/3 isn’t horrible, knowing classes isn’t unlikely, plus MM can do similar checks, But whisp is a very confirmable ability and not stepping up in the royal phase is always a giveaway.
The Hunter (Killer) - unique, and able to directly kill fake claimers, but if there happens to not be a real hunter, you can get away with it.

Virtually unclaimable

The Butler (Offensive)
The Drunk (Offensive)
The Noble (Social)
The Observer (Investigative)
The Prince (Killer)
The Psychic (Social)

If we want the game not to be crazy easy to solve via mass claim on day 2 (which trust me, if we ever get a vet’s or ranked mode where newbies don’t outnumber experienced players, people will start using whatever strategy makes them most likely to win, even if it makes the game very unfun). We need to be finding ways to get more classes in the upper groups, not move moving classes from the upper groups down.

Oh and before someone tries to call observer claimable… it isn’t. Only an idiot or someone trying to avoid contradictable logs would peek before n4, and there’s pretty much no chance that nobody’s visited one of the people you’ve watched. (yes you can use logs to find some true visits to add, but you can’t possibly know how many visits you are omitting, so if the log tells you the now dead sheriff visited joe, that doesn’t solve the fact that you don’t know the live butler also visited him on the same day), assuming nobody actually knows how to play, doesn’t count as making it claimable.

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#8

Actually, Observer is Claimable.

but the logs are very hard to make. you’ll need to always come up with excuses as to why you haven’t ever seen anyone visiting your targets. And it will be very easy for a real observer to came up with better logs then yours, since they are more reals.

also, a converted Obs will have problems showing he’s still an observer for the same reasons

and Sheriff or paladin, are not fake claimable unless you are able to hide of them as assassin/ seeker, and tell them to not claim their old roles. since their is always nearly 2 sheriffs. and I often encountered the same problem when claiming phys.

#9

I thought i covered that already… it isn’t what you SEE that makes it obvious, it’s what you DIDN’T SEE.

If you watched bob on n2, and saw no visits, and I visited bob on n2… I know you are lying. If you’ve supposedly watched 2 or more people, it is a near certainty that one of them was visited by someone who is alive.

and that’s assuming you did the even crazier high risk strategy of only claiming to have visited fellow unseen/cult. (because obviously the supposed target also knows who he visited, and a real observer would have to know that).

It isn’t “having no info when people expect some info”. it is lacking specific info that other people know you should know. If I’m phys, and I targetted the person you watched, I KNOW you omitted my visit from your logs. If you supposedly watched me I know even more if you didn’t correctly include whom I visited etc… Again it isn’t suspicious because you are likely to have too many “nobody visited X’s”, it’s suspicious if you have a “nobody visited an X”, when Y announces he absolutely did visit X.

I do give you props though for not trying to pass off the idea that anyone would believe a day 1 and 2 window peek.

The only way an observer claim can work, is rediculous levels of luck, or people just plain ignoring it when they’ve made a visit that you should have seen, and if you are counting that… well king is also fake claimable, as long as nobody checks to make sure there isn’t a crown next to your name.

2 Likes
#10

I just also want to say that making these classes fake claimable without making them completely different classes entirely is ALSO virtually impossible.

#11

That I agree with. My major point is. there’s too much in the bottom, too little in the top that the last thing we need is to be moving things from the middle to the bottom. We could strongly use more classes to be added that can fall into the top. But of course the huge problem is whenever classes don’t leave huge visible footprints on every action they do, everyone gets massively upset at how boring the class is, and 80% of suggested BD classes almost always fall into the bottom colum.

2 Likes
#12

Mimic should go to an evil role, not a good one. It’s valuable for fakeclaiming, whereas for a good role it would mostly be used to prove yourself and others.

No. Bad. This would make the CW easier to prove (which we absolutely cannot do and which has to be the primary consideration of any CW rework, since there are so few roles the MM / NK can credibly claim as is.) Additionally, BD does need ways to stop conversions to discourage evils from always converting obvious targets.

IMHO the CW isn’t actually a weak role. It doesn’t need buffs. The problem is that it’s just not very fun to play, and it’s hard to figure out how to address that without breaking something - given that it is, otherwise, mostly serving its intended purpose.

1 Like
#13

I could not say it better myself. CW is strong but boring.

1 Like
#14

Well noble and observer kind of claimable

#15

you can scroll up and see my response on observer… assuming the BD is paying any attention to your log, it disproves you instantly.

Noble: OK make me vote for X, if not I’m voting for you. and everyone else should too.

#16

Noble and Butler

Force vote/ Poison the king… or be execute. even servant should claim butler.

#17

I am not a big fan

  1. replacing CW’s current ability with magic shield is a bad idea imo, it like sheriff’s old surveillance ability, it’s an easy confirm as well as that it’s weaker

  2. mimic I don’t really understand it but imo tornado is good

#18

Never thought about the noble confirm

I always claim noble as possessor and CL and no one ever asks me that

#19

How the fuck are you claiming him as CL!?

#20

???

I always do and I have only lost 2 cult games

seriously though no one asks me that question