Cult much weaker than Black Rose?

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#1

Hi, this might be just an opinion based on games where their aren’t enough players, but it seems that the Cult has to be Super lucky, have an evil or neutral King and get the right players mislynched etc. to even have a hope of winning. This is mostly due to the fact there are so many BD roles that are cult conversion immune (Priest, Paladin, Prince, King…) which means if the cult is down to one or two players with just a king, prince and Paladin alive they are screwed.

Not only that, but the Cult have to deal with a much stronger investigative than Black Rose. The Sheriff can be Counter Claimed more boldly than the Paladin as the Sheriff cannot directly kill any Black Rose it finds, whereas the paladin can.

I honestly feel that the Paladin and Sheriff should swap abilities - perhaps you’ll need to rename the Sheriff - but ultimately I think this is something to consider.

#2

You’re definitely right, Cult>BF.

How to fix this will take time, but I think a better solution than swapping Paladin/Sheriff is letting all Cultists keep one ability from their previous class (whichever one helps to prove their role the most).

#3

Games with 12 or less players dont offer the time for the cult to get the members it needs to be powerful. IMO, cult games only work in full games with 14-15 players.

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#4

The problem is so often that cult is left facing confirmed roles they can’t convert, without the power to kill them easily

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#5

/revive

After all of the Cult changes. Is this still true? The cult is obviously much stronger now. But I don’t think it is as good as the unseen right now. What does everyone else think?

sorry about the necropost. It just made sense to ask this here rather than making a new one.

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#6

It is much weaker in one aspect: If the prince jails the Cult Leader continuously it’s game over for Cult.

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#7

Necroposting is fine as long as the discussion is still relevant.

Unseen is still certainly more powerful than Cult right now, even if the Mastermind is irreplaceable.

If games end up lasting longer, Cult tend to do better than Unseen do only because they will always have a converting class available. Unseen have the killing power to shorten game times or to immediately by removing the Prince or Sheriff from the game early on. BD has to find a Cult member at least every 2 days to eliminate them all which is increasingly easier to do when fewer players are alive.

#8

Cult tend to be harder to detect imo

#9

/revive

I think cult is much better now. They have pretty similar killing power (2 kills per night), guaranteed converter class, and larger maximum size, in addition to more special abilities such as occupying and switching targets done per night.

with less ways to combat conversion, I think cult is getting the upper hand

#10

The cult is definitely in a good spot compared to the unseen balence wise. I would not say that it is perfect but currently the unseen is only slightly faster than the cult.

Cult Kill power is 2 + 4 - 1/4

Unseen Kill power is 2 + 4 + 1

#11

Cult’s problem is that it’s classes are weaker and they’re more reliant on conversions, which eventually dry up.

It’s much harder for them to pretend to be what they used to be as well, so they’re more easily outed, which, in theory is made up by there being more of them, but in reality you’re so easily caught you almost never have a full roster so that “advantage” doesn’t really count.
Of course the real advantage is that they don’t effectively lose once the CL dies, so it sort of balances in that regard.

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#12

Honestly. I think that the apostle needs a rework with thier day ability’s more spacificaly he needs psychic message. Private matter would be good too but isn’t as needed.

#13

I think cult are much stronger then unseen.
In an unseen game, all you got to do is to find the MM, after that its pretty much game over if thee are 8-9 players left.

In cult games you can’t stop the conversions, and the max of 4 is also important. If you don’t have a good prince or knight who also killing cult members you can’t win

#14

Technically depends on the smartness on the team, and whether they identified the CL as CL instead of cult. IE if the CL is perma occupied/jailed… it’s game over for cult as you can find the rest at your lesure. One weak point to stop all kills and conversions from then on.

To me they seem fairly well balanced in comparison to eachother.

#15

Well its much harder to know who is the CL then the assassin IMO,
And if people are smart enough not to kill assassin but just occupy/deb him, until u find the MM, I think BD will defeat unseen like 80% of the games

#16

well depends who’s making the discovery… drunk or butler pretty much can figure that out. Drunk gets attacked debauching someone. butler notices no deaths on what should probably be a cult killing night (actually now that’s more evident than assasain, as it’s much more likely for a single target to be warded/jailed/Immune than 2.

#17

But cult just killing 2 times a game unless they sacrify, and thats not happenings most of the games.

Assasian can be found by: any sheriff/ king on first round, drunk can find at 100%, sheriffs can find at 50% before n4, butler is the same as cult.

#18

At the moment Cult seems very weak. After changed to drunk and court wizard it is very hard to convert. It used to be 7-8 cultists at the end of the game, now it usually ends with 4-5 cultists. Also I see Cult eliminated quickly very often. I think right now Cult needs some buffs :stuck_out_tongue:

#19

As unseen and cult, I prioritise getting rid of drunks as soon as possible - either through conversion of something else.