That faulty logic would make Probe a “social” ability if it publicized feedback to every player.
If we can agree a Probe that sends the feedback to every player in the game is Investigative, then we should agree that class flips are an invest and not social feature, and that therefore just because defile manipulates class flips does not mean it is social.
You already agreed that a probe with public feedback is not social so if it’s not invest then what do you think it is?
Social refers to the manipulation of interaction between people.
It makes you believe that someone was another class. And that’s manipulating communication.
It affects other types of kills as well.
That would be cool. Maybe this?
Forge(day)(1 use) - Edit your target’s logs. If they die then their logs will appear to be your edited version.
But defile actually affects what people believe and deduce from that. Prince’s execution does not.
Social refers to the manipulation of interaction between people.
Even in real life, social primarily refers to speech interaction. And for the purposes of this game, it can only refer to this. Otherwise, offensive and support abilities would be “social”.
It makes you believe that someone was another class. And that’s manipulating communication.
No. It’s only affecting communication indirectly, far too indirectly to be considered as having anything to do with communication. Otherwise, investigative abilities would have to be called “social” since they have to do with the class a person is believed to be.
It affects other types of kills as well.
Yes. I acknowledged that. But in over 90% of use cases it is supporting the assassin’s kill. If because of the less than 10% of cases it affects other kills it can’t be called support, it still can’t be called social.
But defile actually affects what people believe and deduce from that. Prince’s execution does not.
Yes it does. There is literally nothing that does not affect what believe people and deduce. Prince executing Mastermind N4 makes everyone believe it wasn’t a poss jump and therefore they deduce there are at most 2 Unseen.
Someone already posted the wiki’s definition of social:
Social classes can use the chat system and social abilities to forge allies or disrupt communication between players.
Clearly link and conduit “use the chat system” to “forge allies” while distract and chill and trollbox “use the chat system” to “disrupt communication between players.”
Defile and Frame do not fit this definition at all. They don’t use the chat system.
That faulty logic would make Probe a “social” ability if it publicized feedback to every player.
Indeed it would be
So here you were saying a Probe that publishes feedback to all would be a “social”? You posted your definition of social a while back and it is very arbitrary and frankly useless because it would make investigative abilities “social”. I’m going with the wiki’s definition of “social”: affecting the chat system.
If that is the only thing that counts then Noble is not social. Votes, logs, flips, ect are all not part of the chat system.
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I’d say it’s social if it’s effect is on the players rather than on their class’s effects. Thus sheriff is not social (his ability’s don’t impact anyone besides himself directly) however a class that tells someone ELSE if target player is Unseen or not would be social and not invest.
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And since feedback is not an effect that means that Mind warp, frame, ect are all only effecting the player. Same with vote manipulation as voting is also something the player rather than the class has. Same deal with log manipulation.
And yes by this reasoning a Probe that announced it’s results would be social.
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Basically. Ask the question of if the ability would still impact anything if the player targeted submitted his action and then went AFK without doing anything else would the effect matter? If the answer is no then it’s usually social.
That isn’t a hard clad rule or anything as there can be social ability’s where the answer is yes (Trollbox, Frame, ect) but there it’s either because it’s effect isn’t on the target or because it has additional non-social effects (such as intrigue, which has an investigative effect).
If the person being effected by the ability is you and only you and the answer to the “Would this still matter if I was AKF” question is no then it’s investigative.
I like to seperate things into 3 category’s:
Status - An object or passive (Your class, Being dead, Being poisoned/bleeding)
Effect - A one time event that can change a status or effect (Redirection, Occupy, Prevention, Attack, Conversion ect.)
Feedback - A message that informs you of a Status, Effect or Feedback (Target is unseen, You were attacked but immune, ect.)
Killer - Any effect that applies the dead status
Offensive - Any action that applies a negative effect or status or remove a positive
Support - Any action that appliest a positive effect or status or remove a negative one
Investigative - Any action that gives you feedback but does not apply any effects
Social - Any action that gives someone else feedback but does not apply any effects*
Special - None of the above
*voting is neither a status, effect or feedback and is thus not covered by these definitions nor am I attempting to here.
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Social - Any action that gives someone else feedback but does not apply any effects*
So what would you classify all the chat abilities as? Telepathy, Conduit, Link Minds, Trollbox, Icy Touch, and Distract?