This is getting pretty irritating. The hardest part of doing a read should not be getting the fucking quote function to work.
[quote=āWisdom, post:4465, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Are there 3p this game?
Because Guill sure looks like 3p.
[/quote]Starts out 3p hunting on Guill.
Then theres stances taken with no reasoning.
[quote=āWisdom, post:4516, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Iām not.
I read Guillās ISO and thought āthis makes most sense if heās 3pā.
[/quote]After Min Challenged him for reasoning on Guill being 3p he basically just repeats the stance.
[quote=āWisdom, post:4665, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Is there any reason not to clear Silviu and Windward based on post count alone?
[/quote]This bothered me. It does not make sense for a scum to make this statement but the thought process behind it does not feel like a genuine attempt to hunt.
After I poke them for reasoning they give some and I feel like I can understand their thought process to some extent. It does not look really bad but I dislike they did not seem to know what their own reads were. I particularly like that they seemed to have some real thought process for third party hunting. I also liked that they specifically poked me for my reasoning on town reading Guill after that. Later they Town read Kaif without reasoning but when I poke them for it again they seem to have a genuine thought process.
Later I disliked them hunting for the 3rd mason for obvious reasons. They were not shy about it though and advocated for them to reveal. Could WIFOM that either way. Like I hate the intention potential but I like how shameless they were with it?
[quote=āWisdom, post:4857, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Nah, sure. Kill me and get it over with if you tunnel that hard. I donāt think youāre wolfing here.
[/quote]This is the first indicator they town read Min which was followed by a reads list:
[quote=āWisdom, post:4934, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Guill, whatās your wolf reads and whatās your read on Helz and why?
[/quote]I didnāt like the no reasoning vote on me which was followed up with this. Felt like a shallow attempt to poke Guill to build a train rather than sorting me.
[quote=āWisdom, post:5302, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Wind wagon is weird, makes me think they might be towning after all.
Yeah
Wind v lean
[/quote]Then a bit after having Wind as potential wolf they get a V lean under this reasoning. Not a great look imo.
[quote=āWisdom, post:5335, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Oh Iām quite confident Helz is wolfing. Iām just bad at making strangers listen to me.
[/quote]Then some more throwing shade at me without reasoning.
[quote=āWisdom, post:5375, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Just voting to save Luku tbh
[/quote]I might lean Luk/Wisdom unlikely W/W with this post unless we are in some very strange (multiball which I feel is less likely with 1kpn.) They even double down with a much later post saying it again. The following day they start with a vote on me which is consistent.
[quote=āWisdom, post:6159, topic:87703ā]
Guill keeps screaming wolf to me but I think Helz is the better target right now.
[/quote]I donāt like this post. He scum reads Guill but I am the better āTarget.ā That wording was very specific.
[quote=āWisdom, post:7131, topic:87703, full:trueā]
Read through Aelinās ISO. Not w/w with Wiisp/Luku/Min but they are all likely town anyway.
[/quote]Back to this post there was not really any build up on Minās read and I do not feel like he mentioned Wiisp a single time. Its good they clarified they did not include Aelin in that group given they said they did not even know who that was (although the paranoid part of me wonders if they realized they had slipped when I called them out and backtracked) The Luk read could absolutely be justified but the Wiisp and Min reads are questionable to me and if you include Aelin itās a lie for sure.
@Wisdom- Can you clarify your reads on Wiisp and Min?
Also this post here caught my attention:
Can you explain your reasoning here?
So I am just done messing with this bullshit. Sorry that half the quotes are broken but I have better things to do with my life than figure out why auto generated quotes donāt function and writing up something myself does not seem to function either. I am very tired and getting cranky so sorry for my bad attitude.
TLDR-
Over all I scum lean them but I am also concerned of them being LHF. There is a big play style difference between us and I still disagree with a lot of points they make but the real thing of value I feel in their Iso was that last post calling Luk/Wiisp/Min (and maybe Aelin) āAll likely town.ā I feel players should look at that situation when sorting their alignment.
Ima call it a night. I do not like getting so irritated over small stuff. If someone has a tip for making quotes work let me know. And sorry again I slapped out my read like that. It was inconsiderate of me.
@Helz, after each [/quote], you have to write your sentences on a new line.
[/quote]this does not work
[/quote]
this does work
2 Likes
I donāt think Zone wouldāve broken the tied wagons yesterDay as a wolf when I accidentally tied them; he shouldāve been happy to let them go down, unless they were T/T wagons and he specifically wanted at least one of them to go over. When I talked to Kaif last night, he said he thought Zone and Merc had W/W equity because Zone voted Tilgarial, but I pointed out that Zone had been SRing Tilgarial since D1, so I thought his vote lined up with his reads.
As for Aelinā¦ Well, I felt pretty good about her interaction with me because it felt like she was actually trying to solve my slot, and her case on Wiisp also looked solvey, but thatās about it. Iād be willing to reevaluate her slot at this point. The thing is that i donāt think sheās groupscum, so I think only town or neut are possibilities, but I could be wrong. Chloe is right when she says Aelin doesnāt really have any oomph to her posts, but I attributed that to Aelinās mood and decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. But Iām not seeing Aelin do much right now; I know she expressed early on that she was fine with dying and getting out of the game, but I think usually when she says that, sheās more active and pushes her reads, and here I donāt really know any of her reads besides Wiisp and me.
Ok, that makes sense. I was looking at the vote counts without reading some of the posts in between and itās entirely my fault that I missed/forgot your reasoning there. I do still agree with others that the Tilga wagon was likely mostly town motivated just because Tilga set off a number of alarm bells at the false EoD, but itās still worth looking into the slots on their wagon as I donāt doubt thereās at least one wolf there. Itās a large wagon and the same goes for Mercās wagon (although we donāt know her alignment yet).
As I said, itās mostly a paranoia thing. I think at least someone whoās been actively asking me to give my reads and then working off them is powerwolfing. At the moment I think itās less likely you than Helz, and out of the PoE of you/Helz/Guillo that i started with today, I still think thereās a wolf there because I donāt think the entire wolf team is UTR, but I know paranoia isnāt a great reason for a PoE full of players who are actually doing things in the thread.
Iām gonna accept your explanation on this for now. As I said, I was looking at the wagons without context and straight-out reading wagon shifts, and it was admittedly a bit dumb. I didnāt want to reread all the posts that went with the wagon shifts because there was a false EoD and I couldnāt just analyze the last 15 min of EoD as Iād done the day before.
Iāve been asking Helz for explanations behind his reads, and while I think they look pretty good, I still havenāt seen any reasoning Iād point out that would never come from a wolf. Maybe I have too high of expectations for his wolf game but I havenāt seen a post from him that screams town. And it would be a much easier game if I could just find him as town and be done with it tbh. Same goes for Guillotina, actually. As for you, every time I read your posts it seems like they make a lot of sense, and that you put thought into them, but I still have some doubts that are mainly due to paranoia at the moment.
This is similar to my line of reasoning. I think Merc gets framed by the NK but doesnāt actually perform it. I stated earlier that I thought Mercās continued push on Kaif looked like a lack of TMI on who the āviable pushesā were, and I still stand by that. She was a lone voter on Kaif when she could just as well have helped to push agenda by voting a wagon that was picking up speed, but she didnāt. And Kaif SRād her as well, but Merc wasnāt his only SR. He had min and Guillotina as scumreads, and also mentioned he thought Zone and Merc were the same alignment, and I think he was still suspicious of Wiisp as well. Anyway, Merc being kind of inactive and also out of touch with the thread state doesnāt give me any sort of vibes that she wanted to agenda push Kaif because there was no support for it.
Iāve wolfed with him once, and in all other games with me heās been town. He grudge votes, declares war on people, and tunnels accordingly when he feels like it. He often votes erratically as either alignment and picks someone to sheep or picks someone to scumread until they change his mind, but his SoD post looks way out of his scum range to me. Not because itās a wallpost but because I could actually feel the effort he put into it as I was reading through. Iāve seen Zones reads in this game when he gives them, and they donāt feel contrived.
For the most part I think Chloe is town so far because her interactions with me feel natural and not weird. I found myself agreeing with a number of her takes, and I didnāt find that backtracking on Helz to be too strange because Iāve also been going back and forth on his slot. I didnāt think he was a wolf for his entrance, actually, but for the way heās being very thorough in this game and yet still not reaching far enough beyond what Iād think a wolf could do, that makes me think heās powerwolfing and whiteknighting a handful of townies. I do like that heās reconsidering his stance on Lukundo after I gave my reasoning on why I think Luk is town, but it almost feels like he lost a potential agenda push. On that note i dont like that Chloe puts Lukundo into the PoE if Helz/Guillo are town because Iām very sure Lukundo belongs in the towncore regardless of Helzās alignment, but I know she just building possible worlds and not saying theyre a reality.
It involves neither of us dying for a while lol
Guillo carrying the scumread on Erika over to Chloe was a little weird to me. I mean, I carried over a townlean on the slot, and Chloe posted and interacted enough with me that I feel comfortable keeping her there for now. But Guilloās main push on Chloe seemed to be that she was pocketing me and agenda pushing Guillo and Helz, and that just pinged me. Wisdom was pushing the two of them as well, and so was I at that point. And maybe Lukundo? So by association Guillo would have found the entire wolf team just off having the same reads, which is a really bad wolf play and I know thatās not the case. He pointed fingers at Chloe, Wisdom and me because we were scumreading Helz and him,and kept going on about how towny they both were, which is exactly why I wasnāt letting go of my SR on both of them.
That was my actual thought, but the reason Tilgarial was paranoid is that they did the same thing, but as a wolf (and also tried to hammer themselves but it didnāt happen because I was the only one voting them lol). Tilgarial sometimes likes reading slots off what they personally would do in their shoes when they donāt have wolf meta on the player in question, so thatās why Tilga asked me if I pick up tips and tricks when watching other people play FM. Because they knew that I would remember it was an effective gambit they pulled off when they wolfed against me.
OK, so that makes two of us who are paranoid lol. I can understand why, though, since I have the same feeling. And if itās neither of us, weāre gonna have to look elsewhere.
Itāsā¦ a paranoia post lol. As Guillo and Helz said, I could be completely wrong. But I could also be right, and theyāre the ones feeding me the narrative that I am wrong but also should lead the town. Iād be more than willing to step back today and let everyone else do their thing, and see if we actually hit a wolf at EoD without my interference, but it isnāt going to help people solve my slot so Iām not sure itās as great of an idea as I thought it was when I went to sleep lol.
Yeah, because Guillo was being townread for his RT and TWTBAW reasons, and Helz was being townread for ??? thread presence, encouraging proactivity, and idk what else tbh. The thing is that I realized I had pretty weak reasons to TR them, put them high into my townreads way too quickly and shelved reevaluation for two days, which I was going to do anyway, but what I did not plan on doing was reversing my reads on them. Part of the reason Wisdom scumread me at first was exactly because I stuck those two in my townreads and didnāt think much more on them, so I understand why sheād think there was an association. But Iāve come around to the point where Iām hard analyzing their slots and Iām not townreading them for mundane reasons.
Well, he moved off of Chloe to vote me instead lol. I really dislike the early D3 thunderdome proposal and I know itās stupid of me to agree to it, but I canāt see a townie asking for a thunderdome so early in the game. But Iāve also been trying to figure out if scum would risk their position trying to thunderdome so early, too.
That, and calling for the CFD off of PKR and Kaif and onto Wiisp. As I said before, I donāt really see a wolf trying to get a CFD off of two townies when they could easily just leave it be.
The one thing that stops me from voting Wiisp so easily is that Guillo was calling for a resolution on the PRs and wanted one of them voted out, which just read to me like āletās yeet the PRs and eventually one of them will flip wolfā, and honestly Iād rather vote Guillo out than Wiisp for that.
Yeah, I actually do see your points on Wisdom. My thoughts are mostly that itās due to a playstyle difference but I agree that their flip on reading me and their suggestion on reading Silviu and me off of our post count were both weird.
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Hey Wind.
Not totally equipped with the info here but were both the wagons yesterday T? If not, do you TR read both wagons? If still no, why couldnāt Zone be a wolf trying to save a buddy?
Wagons yesterday were Tilgarial (town) and Mercenary (unknown). I thought both could be wolves yesterday which is why I proposed CFDing off Blitz onto one of those two, and Tilgarial primarily for their voting pattern. I really did think Merc could be scum when I proposed the wagon on her, but got cold feet when people jumped on it very quickly after I suggested it as it looked like an LHF wagon more than a wolf wagon.
So yeah, I currently TR both the wagons and I assume there has to be scum on one or both of the wagons by that logic. Kaif is right in that Zone could have tried to save Merc, except that I already would have placed the āsavingā vote on Merc because she was tied with Tilga, meaning that if Iād had the last vote, neither of them wouldāve been top wagon and weād have ended up with a no-elim. I donāt think Zone had any need to place a vote to save Merc, and more specifically, he placed his vote on Tilga to break the tie, when he already had expressed a scumread on them since D1. So it was a consistent line of thought and not a wolfy vote imo.
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For clarification, the way I remember it going was that I was asked, if I had to pick a wagon, who would I pick? And I named Tilga and Merc, and then I was consequently asked which of the two I thought was more likely to flip scum, and I said Merc.
But the votes piled on Merc extremely fast and thatās why I said it feels like scum was prompting me to give reads, and encouraging me to follow through with them because they were probably wrong.
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anyway, I decided Iāll just respond when Iām tagged or asked a question. I donāt really have anything else to add right now that I havenāt already said, and I guess Iām unsettling people by force-reversing my reads today, so Iāll stay out of the spotlight and let someone else control the thread because I really donāt want to be in this position where I feel like Iām stuck leading whether I like it or not.