Adding a new Faction ? perhaps, Instead of “neutral” call it something different, that indicate they are neutral, perhaps “Ancestors of *****” Or something a neutral clan that kills/trades/ does certain thing?
BTW does anyone have an estimate on how meany people survive to the end in most games?
Other statistics I want to know is:
How meny BD are executed in most games?
How many NON-BD are executed?
Tbh, if you remove NKs (poss and reaper), i think it will already calm down the whole “neuts out” meta. And it will make the game way less luck based.
It would make the game way too static and borring for everyone else. Playing with the NK adds so much to the game.
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NK killing prince n1, or NK killing the cult leader n1, literally completly change the outcome of the game. Its just an RNG role imo.
A n1 where prince dies and no cult dies probably results in like 70%+ cult victory.
A n1 where CL dies and no BD dies probably results in like 70%+ BD victory.
So if the CL started with a single member instead of 2 every games, what would you estimate is their win rate? I think 30% is accurate.
Given that the ideal winrate is 35% that’s pretty good. Combined with the NK thats a 50/30/20 split. Not bad if you ask me.
It’s about more than the win percentage, it’s about having things determined by skill instead of luck.
If you and I play a game where we flip a coin to see who wins, that game is perfectly balanced, with a 50/50 win rate for both of us. But is it a good game?
Which team wins should be determined as much as possible by how well each player plays, not which side gets lucky N1. Obviously you can never have things be entirely determined by skill, but there are things you can do to try to minimize luck, and they’re worth doing. I don’t necessarily agree removing the NK is or isn’t one of them, but I think simply quoting win rates isn’t a good argument either way.
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Solid post. I really agree with it.
But i still think NK is what cause most of the RNG of the game.
The point of quoting winrates is to show that it’s balenced/fair. Skilled players will win more than the winrate fore the faction.
On a big enough timeline after enough games played, yes, skilled players will, on average, win more games. However, that doesn’t mean it isn’t still desirable to reduce the effect of luck when possible. Unless you are advocating that balancing win rates via luck is inherently superior to balancing win rates via skill, I don’t see your point.
If it was theoretically possible to have a magical game where the more skilled players won every time, wouldn’t you want that? And therefore isn’t getting as close to that as is possible not a good thing?
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If that’s your reasoning then I will have you know that NK’s are important to balencing the game.
For the BD it prevents the Prince from cheesing the game. You can’t just jail the assassin or cult leader the whole game because the NK could kill you or the healers stoping the assassin/CL from killing you in the day. Without the NK the game is too easy to solve.
For the Evils it gives them a reason to be looking for lies that are ment to blend in. It’s not hard for the unseen/cult to find the scorned but the reaper/Possessor is much harder. It also gives them a reason to try and get protection so that they don’t die.
For both sides it makes death more likely and thus support more valuable.
I’m not arguing for or against NKs. I’m saying, specifically, the win/loss rates aren’t a valid argument for or against them. There are certainly other arguments for and against them that are valid, and I’d rather the discussion focus on those.
I actually agree that as the game is, it needs NKs. The game could be change so that isn’t the case, though.
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Since you are looking at the friends system anyway, can there be a utility to remove a friend? Or better visibility if there is one an I can’t find it. 
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I don’t like current NK, but I think the inquisitor and sorcerer posted in news on the discord looks really interesting because of it’s win condition
I really want to see a noble change. The class is just so low impact early that my strategy on the class has been to just claim noble d2 and say, “if I’m converted I’ll be outed instantly and I’m so low impact I’m not worth killing.”