It’s like how Hunter wolf is Better than CS. And how Drunk HH is better than Butler Wine
Well let me give an example
You have a limited use cold steel and unlimited use cold steel which one is better? Let me give another example
You have a limited use cold steel which goes through heals and an unlimited use cold steel which one is better?
Imo it does effect it in a way maybe not in a strong way but a small way
They are the same ability with the same strength. You give something limited uses BECAUSE it is powerful.
Unlimited use one. The limited use one is Anti-BD.
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I agree that the duchess could use a buff, but this is weak. It’s only useful for finding neuts. And marshal would still be a better princess. I’d prefer it if bat eyelashes was changed to this:
Charm(day)(unlimited) - Determine your target’s exact class.
Drug can’t fake healing poison or bleeding though. It also only has 3 uses, and it’s not that strong.
The only disadvantage it has compared to probe is that it has 2 uses while probe is unlimited.
Probe should determine your target’s exact class regardless of their faction if watch carefully is changed though. There’s no good reason why it shouldn’t be able to find neuts.
They shouldn’t be impossible to find though. And you already know that they’re a neut
They aren’t already impossible to find
Just try killing one if it had defence most likely neut
Seriously? An Unlimited use day fullcop? That’s OP AF even on scum. Also I am not trying to make the ability better than Probe in every way.
Also a faction and type check narrows it down to at most 3 classes compared to prove that narrows it down to 1 or 8 classes depending on faction.
BD offensive = Drunk/Butler
BD Investigative = Princess, Sheriff, Obs
BD Social = Mystic/Noble
BD Support = CW/Phys
BD Killer = Knight, Hunter, Prince
Neutral Killer = Sorcerer, Possessor, Reaper
Neutral Support = Merc/Alch
Neutral Social = Fool/Scorned
Neutral Investigative = Inquisitor
As you can see the Duchesses results are HUGELY impacted by including faction.
For example right now Support contains 2 Neuts and 2 BD that you might want to convert
Killer contains 6 classes!
Including faction almost doubles accuracy. And with the remaining uncertainty it isn’t usually that important besides with killer (Hunter vs Prince is definitely important. Obs vs Sheriff however… Not so much)
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Not being able to find Neuts keeps the ability in check. Knowing which Neut someone is can be important late game so sheriff having this limitation can make the other Investigative converts much more appealing than they otherwise would be.
Duchess is supposed to be underpowered as compared to Marshal and Nightwatch, if purely thinking about their investigative abilities. The same holds true for their BD counterparts. Duchess has royal blood, which makes the path to an evil king so much easier, which fills up a conversion slot on the unseen roster. This is extremely powerful and I haven’t even seen it mentioned here. She also has Dark Wisp, which is the only real defense against a confirmed sheriff checking MM.
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Unseen need slight buffs probably. They have a lower winrate than the Cult I’m pretty sure as well
Probe would still be usually better, but there’s no way to completely fix that unless princess and sheriff were both converted into marshal.
The other investigative converts are already appealing.
That’s bad balance though. Classes should be equal in strength, with the exception of faction leaders.
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Unfortunately true. This is supposed to help but I understand that it won’t truly be enough.
Yes? This makes them more so.
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I don’t agree with you, but why is skewed balance such a bad thing? It gives evils more incentive for better target selection towards making quality converts, instead of only having to deduce prince. That gives evils way more strategic depth and simultaneously the same holds true for BD trying to protect their “higher quality” possible converts. Of course it should not be too skewed, because that will lead to problems of people not being happy with their impact on the game.
This thread mostly compares bat eyelashes to all of Marshal and Nightwatch from what I have read so far. With what you only half-quoted, I tried to say that that is an unfair comparison and Duchess also has royal blood and can hide the entire unseen, but more importantly the MM, from Sheriffs. I am personally happier to convert a sheriff/observer n1, but prefer a princess convert all nights after. That means I disagree with the premise of this thread that duchess needs buffs, because she is underpowered relative to other investigative converts.
Skewed balence is bad because it results in random swing.
The benefit you mentioned can be achieved without skewed classes by making classes that are more or less versitile and making those that are less versitile stronger at what they do but useful in less situations.
For example the Sage is incredibly versitile. Swaps can screw with invests and healers but can also be used to Doge attacks and to prove yourself. WoF can bypass defences on a prince and can protect Unseen from the attacks of the NK
Yet Frenzy is just better for killing high profile targets such as Prince due to the granted Occupy Immunity. And Protect is simply better than WoF for defence due to having additional uses.
Thus Sage is not better or worse than Enforcer. Yet I can find plenty of reasons to spacificaly seek one over the other depending on the situation.
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