Duchess Rework and Princess Changes Version 1.1

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Princess

Blue Dragon Investigative

Night ability 1: Flirt(Uses: Unlimited)- limit your target’s class type down to 2 options(Same as current ones)
Night ability 2: Will-o-Wisp(Uses: 2)- Determine your target’s faction

Day ability 1: Charm(Uses: 2)- Flirt will determine your target’s exact class type.

Notes

  • To prevent power creep, snoop should be removed from Marshal before this is added.

  • To view a copy of a players logs, , the logs will be displayed next to the player’s name(where the logs are shown upon death) instead of being displayed above the name list. The icon for snooped logs will remain the same, however.

  • If you snoop the same player multiple times then the icon will be put next to their previous logs and a number will appear on it that identifies which is which.

  • Dark Wisp is only replaced because Timesnatcher already has Dark Dimension, which is basically Dark Wisp just renamed. If Dark Dimension was replaced/reworked then I would be fine with keeping Dark Wisp for Duchess.

Duchess

Unseen Social

Night Ability 1: Snoop(Uses: 3?)- Gain a copy of your target’s logs. You will be able to view this copy at any time
Night Ability 2: Shroud(Uses: 2)- Player will appear as chosen class if they are executed tomorrow.

Day ability 1: Shred(Uses: 1)- Erase your target’s journal and prevent them from writing in it further. You will gain a copy of it
Day ability 2: Forge(Uses: 1)- Gain a copy of your target’s logs. You will be able to edit this copy at any time. If your target dies, then their logs will be replaced with your edited version.

Changelog
Version 1.1
  • Shroud no longer investigates
  • Poll- Do flirt’s results need changing
  • -Yes, the results for flirt should be changed to(post below)
  • -No, the current flirt results are fine

0 voters

  • Poll- How many uses should Snoop have?
  • Unlimited
  • 3
  • 2
  • Other(Post below)

0 voters

  • Poll- Should Shred and Forge only be able to work on players whom you have already snooped?
  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

1 Like
#2

Isn’t duchess a better nightwatch

#3

It’s perfectly fine that it is but let’s buff night watch

2 Likes
#4

The only thing that’s better is Shroud, though that’s situational(There are times when it is an advantage to know a player’s class without killing them). Should I reduce it to one use? Or should Timesnatcher be given Shroud and have Duchess keep Dark Wisp?

I agree with that. I plan on making a thread for a Nightwatch rework and a few observer changes

#5

I’m trying to wrap my head around how this would be meant to work. Would you choose the class you want them to appear as during the night phase, or after you find out what class they actually are? Honestly, if you’re set on having this ability, I’d say “Target will appear as the converted version of their class if they are executed tomorrow (if applicable)”. Removes much of the guesswork, plus they can work mislynches out of it without too much trouble.

These only seem to exist as a means for Duchess to erase logs, and I highly doubt that they would be used on anyone other than Prince, King, Noble, or Mystic, especially if they were allowed to be used on someone before you Snoop them (And before you tell me it’s not usable on King, your post doesn’t mention that and it probably should if that limit exists).

Also worth noting that if you suggest giving Snoop to Duchess instead of Marshal, you should probably come up with something to give to Marshal in exchange for his losing Snoop.

#6

No, Duchess ought to have Shroud if either of them gets it. Shroud is an investigative ability, and Dark Wisp (or Dark Dimension) is a supporting ability, so there’s little sense in giving the Support class the investigative ability and the Investigative class having the supporting ability.

1 Like
#7

Alright, I’ll remove the investigative part.

That’s the entire point of the abilities, to cast doubt on logs.

That’s why I created a poll for it, I wasn’t sure about that.

I’ll edit that in, forgot about king interactions.

I’ll be creating a separate thread for sheriff, paladin, and marshal eventually but I want to make probe work regardless of its target’s faction.

#8

Observer already has this in the form of Window Peek, Princess doesn’t need it.

#9

Then what should I replace it with? And I want to rework Window Peek as well since it isn’t related to Follow

#10

See if x and y are the same class type?

#11

This change seems unnecessary tbh. Princess is fine. If you want to change duchess go for it, but I think princess doesn’t need a buff

#12

RH, weren’t you one of the people complaining that Timesnatcher had Dark Wisp?

2 Likes
#13

I am now confused

Why is this better than Marshal having Snoop

#14

Snoop doesn’t really fit a duchess flavour to me

1 Like
#15

#remove snoop. It’s a worse version of marshal probe. And sometimes the class which the person has is different from their logs.

Also snoop encourages people to have their logs in their pm’s if they gave snoop to duchess

#16

I’m 100% down to remove Snoop, obviously

Which is why I’m curious as to why it’s being moved in this suggestion

2 Likes
#17

What is bad about it being on Marshal?

#18

It’s actually atrocious on BD, but the same things make it unsavory on any class

It’s just a superbuffed way to get a class and usually all night results, often lumping in players’ speculations as well. Basically, it can kinda read your mind.

Now, maybe you think that’s good because it discourages putting critical information in wills. I would argue that it’s infrequent enough to make no difference to how anybody writes their wills, and is therefore ineffective at the task.

Basically, there are better ways to do what Snoop does that don’t attempt to force putting things you want hidden in Private Notes over your will, and better ways to mess with people’s trust in wills.

#19

In conclusion: It’s not the worst on scum, but I think you can do its job in ways that are less hostile to the players. Snoop punishes skilled players more by stealing all of their thoughts from their will, alongside their class and all of their other info.

#20

That could work

Alright, but are the duchess changes good?

Yes, but only because they are the exact same ability. And I made will-o-wisp a faction check because I want to see Window Peek get charged so it determines what classes visit your target.

Because Marshal is a better Duchess in almost every way.

What’s wrong with a scum class having Snoop? Sure, probe determines the exact class of BD, but Snoop can learn what it’s target did during previous nights. That’s strong

Only for Neuts/Scum though. The only BD that should ever use another claim is Hunter.

PMs aren’t displayed to the entire court upon death though.

To make Duchess different from Marshal