[Duo Class Suggestion] The Deathcaller and The Shaman, elements-based opposing Neutrals!

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

So I had an idea for a pair of Neutrals that can spawn together (much like the Sorcerer and the Inquisitor).

EDIT: It’s been suggested to me that this could be an alternative to Sorcerer/Inquisitor based on whether it’s an Unseen or Cult game. Sorcerer would help Unseen and Deathcaller would fit a Cult game.

The Deathcaller :shield:

Neutral Killer
Master of the Elements (Passive) - As you commit your murderous rituals, you empower yourself with the Elements. When you complete your first kill, the power of Earth makes you immune to bleeding and poison. When you complete your second kill, the power of Air makes your attacks not count as visits. When you complete your third kill, the power of Water makes you immune to occupation and redirection. When you complete your fourth kill, the power of Fire allows you to bypass healing and death immunity when you attack.
Doombringer (Passive) - You are immune to death at night. The journals of people you kill at night will be wiped and replaced with the words “THE END APPROACHES”.
Mindshade (Day) - You will send a Shade to target player and choose a feedback message. At the end of tonight, that player will see that feedback message. Killing someone with Ritual Murder grants an additional use. - 1 use.
Ritual Murder (Night) - You will attack a player and attempt to kill them in a ritualistic way. Each successful kill empowers you and adds a charge to Call From Beyond. - Infinite uses.
Call From Beyond (Night) - [Only usable when it has 4 charges] Call forth your dark master, unleashing a wave of death and destruction upon Castle Adiart. You will simultaneously attack the King, Prince and Cult Leader, if any of these still live. If the Prince is dead, you will instead target the Paladin highest on the list. Each use consumes 4 charges. - 0 uses.
Defeat the Blue Dragon and the Cult.

The Shaman :shield:

Neutral Support
Servant of the Elements (Passive) - As The Deathcaller’s power rises, so does yours. When the Deathcaller completes their first kill, the power of Earth makes you immune to bleeding and poison. When the Deathcaller completes their second kill, the power of Air will grant you immunity to effects that warp your mind. When the Deathcaller completes their third kill, the power of Water makes you immune to occupation and redirection. When the Deathcaller completes their fourth kill, the power of Fire grants you the ability to kill at night.
Spiritual Communion (Passive) - You are immune to death at night. At the start of every day, you will know the name of one still living player who is not the Deathcaller.
Spirit Guide (Day) - Send out a helpful spirit to a target, ensuring they receive accurate feedback tonight. Every time the Deathcaller successfully kills with Ritual Murder, you gain an additional use. - 1 use.
Ancient Medicine (Night) - Heal a player. If the Deathcaller attacked them, you will be notified. - Infinite uses.
Ghostflame (Night) - [Only usable when the Deathcaller has claimed their fourth victim] Attack a player at night. If you attack the Deathcaller, you will bypass all their immunities. - Infinite uses.
Survive to see the Deathcaller dead.

Notes:

  1. The Shaman’s Air blessing and Spirit Guide both provide immunity not only to the Deathcaller’s Mindshade, but also to Mindwarp effects and anything that tampers with player feedback (such as Frame).
  2. Mindshade works by selecting from among a list of premade options. This means Follow feedback is impossible to fake, but you could always choose “No visits”.
  3. If you select the same feedback as the ability the target uses, your Mindshade will replace the target’s normal feedback. For example, if you Mindshade a Sheriff and choose “Your target is a member of the Unseen!”, they will receive that message even if they Investigate a BD or Neutral player.
  4. Mindshade doesn’t actually create any effects, just the illusion of one. If you select “you were cured of your bleeding”, for example, the target will know the next day they’re still bleeding by looking at their portrait.
  5. Spiritual Communion will never tell you the same name twice, but it will always tell you that the starting King is not the Deathcaller at the start of Day 1.

I believe that’s all. Feedback is welcome! :smile:

5 Likes
#2

I really like this idea of a “sorc vs inq” interaction where the “sorc” keeps growing in power but so does the “inq” in order to compensate :stuck_out_tongue:

What I don’t like though, to be honest, is Call From Beyond making you win automatically just because you got 5 kills. If the ability was just really strong that would be cool, but I don’t like it making you win just like that.

I also think the wiping victim’s journals to be very annoying to the victims. Even if the phrase left in their logs is very ominous :stuck_out_tongue:

#3

Quick question

when using mindshade, will it tell you your target’s class, or not?

let me also say this
I hate Sorcerer vs Inquisitor, but I love this.

1.It reduces the Original Sorcerer’s severity of the win condition, so it’s not Impossible to win as Deathcaller
2. it doesn’t allow the Shaman to kill until the Deathcaller gets 4 kills, meaning no more forgetting to magic cloak d1, being found by inq n1, then yolo killed n2.

Basically in Summary: Great Idea, I Love it.

P.S. The Doombringer passive is awesome, i get to troll and kill people at the same time :wink:

1 Like
#4

Thank you! :smiley:

I actually agree that if this was a Sorc or “proper NK” replacement, the win con is too easy. The problem is that I wanted a NK that would ramp up the tension and heavily punish both BD and Unseen/Cult for not focusing on finding him. I suppose what I could do is simply rework the win condition to a normal NK wincon and have the “ultimate” always kill specific targets (King, CL, Prince, if Prince is dead it kills a Paladin, if all Paladins are dead, then BD’s mostly screwed and don’t need any more deaths).

I mean, the wiping of the journals is to help the Deathcaller fakeclaim, since otherwise the Mindshade might not be good enough. I suppose I could wipe the right side of the journal instead. I’d like to hear more feedback about it from others, to see if it’s an enjoyable mechanic or not.

Nope! The safest play for Mindshade is to send them a feedback they might receive if they were visited by another class (for example, if you claim Phys, say you’ll be on them and send them the message they were attacked and healed, or if you’re claiming Drunk and say you’ll redirect them, they will be told they were redirected but this will actually be false). You could also do this to fake a Butler claim (by sending them a “your ability was prevented” message, which overrides their normal ability feedback), tho you’d get caught if you sent it to a Prince.

If you think you know what class the target is, then you could attempt to override their normal feedback with one of your own, like if someone claimed they will heal someone who claimed bleeding, you could send the healer the message “your target did not require healing” and get those two to fight each other.

Thanks! :smiley:

I might be changing the wincon due to other feedback I’m getting, so I might make it a normal NK wincon, but it might still be easier to achieve this than Sorcerer’s, since Mindshade helps fakeclaim a lot better than any Sorc ability.

2 Likes
#5

New Call From Beyond:

Only requires 4 charges. Is now an attack that does not automatically bypass anything (though if you have enough charges, you already have the blessing of Fire, which means it ignores death immunity and bypasses healing; however, this means the ability can be prevented through Happy Hour and partially blocked by Knight’s Defend).

New win condition matches standard Neutral Killers and is oriented for a Cult game.

1 Like
#6

Wait bad. He can die N1

#7

So can any NK that attacks into a Knight Guard. Been there myself.

#8

Sorc can’t die to a knight

Reaper have souls

Possessor is stupid to using puppet strings with himself.

#9

All NK must have some sort of Death immunity because if they die N1 they AUTO LOSE AND THEY COULDNT STOP IT

2 Likes
#10

Even inquisitor the NK has a one time death immunity :wink:

#11

A looooot of people yolojump N1.

Yeah, you gain death immunity after your first successful kill. I guess I could give them basic death immunity to both and make blessing of Earth give only bleed/poison immunity. Seems a little weak, but eh. If people really want it…

2 Likes
#12

We don’t balance off of stupid people.

4 Likes
#13

All right, I moved the death immunity to Doombringer/Spiritual Communion.

2 Likes
#14

Perfect 10/10

2 Likes
#15

I really love this concept, although it’s similar to the Sorc/Inq spawn, it’s still very interesting and unique. I hope the developers notice this and add them to the game!

3 Likes
#16

Mindshade and Spirit guide should start with no uses. As is they are practically infinite use so what’s the point.

Also every class has feedback on their ability’s. So if the prevented feedback doesn’t replace it then it’s useless.

#17

Healers (including the Shaman) can block the Deathcaller from progressing by healing their target, and the Deathcaller can hit immune, until they get Blessing of Fire. They can also be occupied until they get Blessing of Water. I think giving them 1 or 2 uses helps them cover up for a night where they can’t complete a successful kill.

I wouldn’t be opposed to lowering the usage to 1, but 0 uses feels a bit risky.

Also you’re right, I suppose prevented does override ability feedback.

1 Like
#18

The point is that most of the time kills are not missed. If you aren’t going to make it unlimited then you should expect them to be unable to use it. Combine that with not having to use the ability every day and it seem kinda pointless to make it limited if it starts with 2

#19

I lowered it to 1 use because it doesn’t recharge with Call From Beyond, only with Ritual Murder. I also clarified Spirit Guide only recharges that way as well.

1 Like
#20

Spiritual Communion (Passive) - You are immune to death at night. At the start of every day, you will know the name of one still living player who is not the Deathcaller.

If the Prince is dead, you will instead attack a random Paladin.

Could you remove the randomness from these?

1 Like