Fake-Claiming on Trial

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#21

Fakeclaiming another BD class as BD on the stand shouldn’t be considered gamethrowing, since it’s public and something completely different from lying to just confirmed BD. Especially if you’re a heathen which actively triggers players to NOT claim their exact BD class.

If I want to claim Hunter, because I have deduced that there is a low chance there is one (with all available claims out there) to avoid a nightkill or because I’m Prince for instance, I would want to able to do so to further my win condition.

5 Likes
#22

Imagine being Knight, and fake claiming Chronomancer on stand, because you think Knights will be executed. A Princess calls you out for being k/o, and you get executed. Or worse, they believe you, and execute the Princess instead.

#23

but in situation he specifically stated claiming within ur wheelhouse of same group killings claiming killing, and invest claiming invest

1 Like
#24

the scenario in the OP was specifically chosen to eliminate the possibility of that sort of thing

#25

It’s not. Imagine you think you were upped because random, but in fact the King voted you up because you are incompatible with the Inquisitor. Or a Pretender outs you as not royal.

#26

imagine no whispers, no accusations, VFR, claim obs instead of princess, or even better rework pretender so they can’t out you

#27

What the fuck is this

#28

Fake Claiming a different role is a great play sometimes as villager. It is not game throwing if you do not have intent to gamehrow

4 Likes
#29

That seems like bad luck rather then gamethrowing.

2 Likes
#30

Hi Firekitten :smiley:
Nothing against fake claiming! I do it a lot myself as BD.
Just not in jail to the prince, or on stand.

#31

The only exception I think is to jail. You should always claim your class to a confirmed town. I do not think you should have to claim your class on the stand when there’s advantages to fake claiming on stand

3 Likes
#32

Or A Pretender/Mastermind calls you out for being K/O. :stuck_out_tongue:

In that scenario a player playing to their win condition typically would drop the act anyways as soon as players would up the Princess or at least ensure they wouldn’t get executed. This scenario just 100% confirmed that they have a correct investigative result to you. Seems even more worthwhile to me to be honest.

You need to factor in intent here and being a heathen is enough of a migitating factor to me. If anything it’d be gamethrowing to me to OUT as a heathen class, because it would just paint a target on your back. Different viewpoints here make that having something as drastic as a ban for it really disproportionate and unfair and will stagnate how everyone plays, which will ultimately yield a boring static meta.

3 Likes
#33

“always claim honestly on trial” is already disproven as a strict rule by 1v1 versus EK. Since the only way to avoid losing to the EK is to A) be hunter but not admit it, or B) not be hunter but lie and say you are hunter

#34

there shouldn’t a blanket ban on fake claiming on the stand. As Solic has pointed out intent needs to be factored in. A bad play (which fake claiming on the stand could be) =/= game throwing

3 Likes
#35

Most reasons for open claiming a fake claim are equally applicable for fake claiming during VFC on the stand.

The act of being on the stand does not increase your intent to lose.

2 Likes
#36

The definition of gamethrowing is attempting to lose.

If the player in question is attempting to win, then regardless of circumstances they are not gamethrowing

2 Likes
#37

In fact, I’d hate to bring this up, but you did something similar to this in your Prince FoL where you continued to fakeclaim close to hammer for a similar reason. Yes, it’s contentious and people certainly were rattled, but I’m sure you would also be appalled to be officially recognized as a gamethrower for that?

If you have any influence on those rules, I would keep that in mind.

Defining gamethrowing properly in a social deduction game with conversion is well quite a task unfortunately, so I am glad we have humans taking time to research case by case. :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#38

I think it makes sense for the guidelines to be different in ToL and FoL, since the meta and the role of information are both so different.

#39

Yeah even the definition I just stated has gray area regarding conversion. Luckily it’s well defined that trying to win means trying to win as your CURRENT class and not just in general.

But for this case that doesn’t matter.

1 Like
#40

I was not on stand.