[Feedback] New Patch Impressions (Long Post)

Goes without saying, but these are my own personal opinions, drawn from about 100 hours of play and around 5-6 hours worth of post-patch matches.


The King:

The most significant change of the patch, and the most disruptive.

I feel that the nerfs to king were unwarranted and not backed up by any sort of data on balance. According to the developers themselves, faction winrates were within 5% of each other last patch; THIS IS AN EXCELLENT BALANCE SPREAD, honestly a godly state of balance considering how complex this game is. There was no pressing need to make such massive changes to a core class, effectively neutering one of the most interesting and dynamic roles.

“Check” was a powerful ability for sure, but that’s not justification for its removal. I mean he’s the king, he SHOULD be powerful, and the pre-patch King was excellent balance-wise and flavor-wise. Sure, as an Unseen/Cult, dying to random King checks can be frustrating…but so is getting assassinated on Night 1, getting reaped, getting yolobombed, etc. It’s just a part of the game and I would argue necessary to keep the gameplay fresh and interesting.

Evil Kings were one of the most difficult/high-skill classes to play as they had to take an active role in misleading the BD without being too damaging to the Cult/Unseen. As it stands now, the King is extremely easy to ignore and his alignment feels much less important. Behavior of Evil/Neutral/BD kings has been homogenized, which is a bad move in my opinion.

In general, the game post-patch feels slower and less exciting. I suspect this is in great part due to the lack of leadership and direction of a central investigative figure, whose personal allegiances are unknown.


The Noble:

The Noble remains one of the least fun/interesting classes to play. The vote-manipulation stuff is cool conceptually, but I think basing the entire class around it (while giving the abilities limited charges) is a mistake. It’s not particularly compelling and frankly, mostly useless unless you are lucky enough to survive into the late game, and by that time, you’re typically either sitting on the throne yourself, or dead by assassin/court.

The Noble when he had “Maid Spy” and “Private Matter” was my absolute favorite iteration of the class. It genuinely felt like I was taking an active role in court politics, compared to the current situation where I do nothing at night and sit pretty during the day. I think Noble would be greatly benefited by combining the first iterations of Noble with the current iteration. Tweaks can be made to his ability charges but overall I believe that direction best suits the class. Bring back hidden whispers and whisper spying!

Oh yeah, and Hearsay is almost entirely useless. The RNG element makes it worthless and most people just troll-whisper. I don’t think this kind of ability RNG has a place in the game. The information you receive from Hearsay is rarely reliable as the source is anonymous. In my time playing the patch I have not received a SINGLE Hearsay message of any value.


Court Wizard

I am not a fan of the direction the CW is taking. The teleportation mechanic feels more like a gimmick than anything else, and is often outright detrimental to the BD. Ice Ward in its current iteration is fine, but it would be vastly better if it were a three-charge ability and you could target other players (including yourself) with it.

Otherwise, I’m not sure what exactly should be done with CW…maybe making the teleportation mechanic a two-charge ability, and giving CW another additional ability? All I’m gonna say is, being a COURT WIZARD should be cool and exciting, let me do cool magic stuff. Right now I groan when I roll CW, it’s one of the more boring roles and often you will be executed because you are hard to confirm as your abilities don’t give any feedback.


Death Knight

It’s difficult to put a finger on the DK changes, particularly because we don’t even see if they exist now. It’s more difficult to confirm Physicians and the impact of a DK will likely be entirely unknown to players, which I feel is not an ideal situation. If DKs were too powerful, a better solution would be just to make them live for 2 days, with 3 ability charges (2 guard, 1 coldsteel). That way they will be forced to choose between guarding or attacking on their last day.


Drunk

I am content with the change to Drunk. Pre-patch Drunk was a bit OP and now it feels more balanced.


Hunter

Hunter was not touched at all during the patch, which I found surprising. The class can be a powerful tool for BD, but it’s a class where you always Bear Night 1 and proceed to do nothing on most other nights. Wolf is a well-balanced ability and warrants no changes, and even Bear is fine. I think Hunter would benefit from an additional minor ability of some sort so you’re not doing “nothing” on most nights. But admittedly this is low-priority.


OTHER

I can’t really speak for the impact of the Sorcerer and the Inquisitor. I have only played a few games with them present, and I think it will take much longer to feel out their effect on the game.


Anyway thanks if you made it this far. I hope the developers continue to consider feedback and improve the game, as Throne of Lies is one of the best games I’ve ever played. Cheers.

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King shouldn’t be an investigative crutch that it was. Old allies just rekt NKs all day

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I agree about the king nerfs. Completely out of left field. They need to at least let the PTR testing go longer than a few days for testing before releasing a bunch of changes all at once. Or make a matchmaking option to choose whether it will be a pre or post match game.

Why shouldn’t the King have investigative abilities? And like I said, from the dev’s own internal numbers, the factions were not unbalanced, despite the existence of the King’s powerful check ability. It’s not a problem and never was.

I would like to add my own thoughts here from a mediocre player point of view. From the moment i bought the game i have been playing a lot (160 hours or so) and i i love this game. Its the first time today that i am not excited at all to keep playing. All my games were a mess Maybe i just had bad luck today and i dont mean win/ loss but people leaving huge spam with random things and a total chaos.

About the classes

CW ; I understand what people mean that in the hands of very good players are powerful but right now with 2 cw and 1 drunk all you can see is redirects everywhere. Investigative classes cant find anything before they die and most people including me cause as i said i am not a very good player dont even understand whats happening when u get a spam of redirects

Noble : why? maybe expert players can play this. I cant and most logs i have seen from nobles are random things.Whats the usefulness of hearsay? why would anyone claim anything to a class that can be converted or in unseen case is already converted?

The king : yes the checks outed the neutrals most of the times i agree. But from what i have seen today now its chaos. Everyone whispers and accuses everyone noone minds the king and he just stands there looking pretty till he dies. Bad king player you will say? I agree but thats the situation unless u play with premade teams.

The new classes : i have no comments about the sorceress i havent had the chance to play with her. I did get inquisitor once and it was interesting even tho my target died early but again only played once i have no judgement yet.

As i said maybe i have very very bad luck today and i got all those chaotic games but you ask for feedback and since i truly enjoyed this game very much i thought to write my opinions. ( except for the noble part that thing is killing me)

King change benefits everybody who was a potential ally and is a lot more useful to BD in finding false Princess/Drunk claims

Think about it. Princess is a huge Mastermind/Cult Leader claim. Drunk was somewhat an Assassin claim. It’s always better to save your Royal checks for those kinds of situations, don’t waste them in one go.

Before it was a matter of “This person is not an ally” -> “Alch? Exe. Not ally”

A lot of Alchemists were losing because of the King’s boner to punch in the Exe on a “Not Ally”

You really need to know how to use the Royal Check for it to be effective. Using it N1 to N4 like the old allies won’t get you anywhere.

BD were also very passive with the old King, they always relied heavily on the King having information and if they did not, they would get executed, even if they’re Neutral. Which caused a lot of Neutral King losses.

King is not there for info, the King is there as an extra vote for whoever. It’s not your leader, your leaders are those who lead, not sit on a Throne.


For real, nobody should be following a King.

Just the other night, I was Drunk, on the latest update. I managed to lead BD into killing off a Reaper and a Scorned and managed to confirm 2 BD.
Then King straight up was told by an evil that I was converted and they all followed the King into killing me, only to find out I was still Drunk. King was Evil, but this would have happened regardless. BD lost their majority the next day.

Following the King is mostly always the wrong move. Don’t be a pawn.

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King having Allies so strong ruined the game honestly. No one listened to Invests early game, NK’s died stupidly early (aswell any Neutrals) and everyone just sheeped King for a ridiculous length of time considering he is the one slot where there is only a 1/3 of him being BD.

Now it is fixed the game can actually be played properly again.

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I wouldn’t say so much bad king, as bad rest of the players… people have completely forgotten how to use the other investigators for the first half of the game, or work with any other information. Kings best use currently is an information filter, possibly a way to relay things the investigator said without outing the invests to the unseen/cult.

I think a better ability would be being able to test whether someone is a specific class type, like “Check player A is investigative” and get yes and no results.

I think the best king ability would be no allies at all, or once he finds an ally he can’t do it anymore

I also think king needs to have a higher chance of BD, right now it is best to just kill him ASAP

Just came back home and saw the new patch notes. I wanted to clarify that my king comment was my least concern i didnt like the chaos but i can deal with the king changes. But i do stand on my feedack about the noble and the double cw and drunk combos it was a huge mess. I saw in another post not in this thread a member saying dont give feedback if you dont have any suggestions. I disagree. I am not a game designer and my imagination is limited but since i got obsessed with the game and i want it to last i thought to give my opinion. Anyway happy gaming all and if u see me in game dont kill me i am always innocent!