Few Complex Suggestions

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Some Generic Ideas For ToL’s Future

  • Empire System:

A clan styled system, people being able to make groups that give them a clan tag type thing in lobbies. With this, people can put their Empire buddies on top of others on their friends list. The tag would show up in lobbies like:
[i42] Plex
You have the potential to add an option to “Quick Invite Empire” to a private lobby, so they all get an instant invite button while on the main menu rather than waiting for a group invite code.
I hope most of this makes sense. In the Empire, you could also have it show people in that Empire the game statistics of each member, and compare things like “Hours Played” or “Games Played”

  • Achievements

The Achievements is another basic thing, and I just came up with an example list of the more basic achievements, which I’m calling “Bounties”

Example list

Bounties:

Class Specific Bounties:
Win a game as class
Win 5 games as class
Win 10 games as class
Win 25 games as class
Win 50 games as class
Win 100 games as class

Faction Specific Bounties:
Win a game as faction
Win 5 games as faction
Win 10 games as faction
Win 25 games as faction
Win 50 games as faction

Secret Bounties:
Be converted into Unseen
Be brainwashed into Cult
Be possessed by a Possessor
Be reaped by a Reaper
Be Occupied by a Butler or Fool
Be cured of Poison
Be cured of Bleeding
Be guarded by a King
Be saved by a King
Be guarded by a Merc
Be contracted by a Merc

  • I was thinking about that whole “Ranked” thing

I had a “League” mode in mind which didn’t rank people on their wins or losses but instead it scored people on their actions against others

I’ve got a big chart that would determine points:

BD Points

Prince:
Imprison:
BD: 1
Unseen/Cult: 3
Neutral: 2

Execute:
BD: -1
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 1

Knight
Sacrifice:
BD: 2
Unseen/Cult: 0
Neutral: 1

Save someone from death:
B: 3
Unseen/Cult: 1
Neutral: 2

Cold Steel:
BD: -1
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 1

Hunter
Wolf:
BD: -1
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 1

Traps:
BD: 0
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 1

Retribution:
BD: 0
Unseen/Cult: 3
Neutral: 1

Sheriff:
Investigation:
BD: 1
Unseen: 3
Neutral: 0

Scout finds conversion: 3

Paladin:
Test Faith:
BD: 1
Cult: 3
Neutral: 0

Smite kills Cult Leader: 3

Observer:
Follow: 1 (for every visit/visitor)
Peek:
BD: 1
Unseen/Cult: 3
Neutral: 2

Princess:
Flirt: 2 (for every use)
Wisp:
Alive: 1 (for every visitor)
Dead: 2 (for every visitor)

Psychic:
Misdirect:
BD vote Non-BD: 2
BD vote BD: 0
Non-BD vote Non-BD: 4

Telepathy: 1 (for use)
Link Mind: 2 (for use)

Noble:
Crier: 1 (for use)
Order:
On BD: 0
On Unseen/Cult: 2
On neutral: 1

Maid Spy: 1 (for every whisper)

Physician:
Heal:
Heal BD: 2
Heal BD (poison): 3
Heal BD (bleed): 3

Heal Unseen/Cult: 0
Heal Unseen/Cult (bleed): -1

Heal Neutral: 1
Heal Neutral (poison): 2
Heal Neutral (bleed): 2

Priest:
Revive:
Prince: 5
Killer: 2
Investigative: 3
Social: 2
Support: 2
Offensive: 2

Drunk:
Debauch:
Killer: 3
Other: 2

Party:
BD: 1
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 2

Butler:
Wine:
BD: 0
Unseen/Cult: 2
Neutral: 1

Concentrated: 1 (for every visitor)
Poison King:
Good: -1
Neutral: 0
Evil: 1

Unseen Points

Mastermind
Convert: 2 (for successful conversion)
Foresight: 2 (for finding convertible)
Dirty Work: 1 (for using it)

Assassin
Assassinate/2for1:
Killing BD: 2
Killing Neutral: 1
Hitting Immune: 0

Nightshade:
Poison BD: 2
Poison kills BD: 1
Poison Neutral: 1
Poison kills Neutral: 0

Distract:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Enforcer
Protection: 2 (for saving an Unseen)
Frenzy: 1 (if Assassin Needed it)

Poacher
Bear:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Snare:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Marshal
Expose: 1 (for use)
Listen In: 2 (for use)
Snoop: 1 (for use)

Nightwatch
Follow: 2 (for every visit/visitor)
Watch Carefully:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Duchess
Stealth Slap:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Bat Eyelashes:
BD: 3
Neutral: 2

Dark Wisp: 1 (if Unseen needed it)

Illusionist
Telepathy: 2 (for use)
Misdirect:
BD vote BD: 2
BD vote Neutral: 1
BD vote Unseen: 0
Neutral vote BD: 2
Neutral vote Unseen: 0
Neutral vote Neutral: 1
Unseen vote Unseen: -1
Unseen vote BD: 2
Unseen vote Neutral: 1

Mind Warp:
BDInvestigative: 3
BDOther: 2
Neutral: 1

Mental Blur:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Aristocrat
Maid Spy: 1 (for every whisper)
Crier: 1 (for use)
Order:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1
Unseen: 0

Herbalist
Drug:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Defile:
Prince: 3
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Soulcatcher
Bind Soul: 2 (for use)
Collect Soul: 2 (for use)
Unleash Souls: 1 (for each class)

Alchoholic
Debauchery:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Hangover:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Servant
Wine:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Concentrated: 1 (for every visitor)

Sellsword
Stonewall: 2 (if Unseen needed it)
Revenge:
Kill BD: 3
Kill Neutral: 1

Cult Points

Cult Leader
Brainwash: 2 (for conversion)
Eradicate:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

BloodOfMithras: 1 (for sacrifice)

Apostle
Eavesdrop: 1 (for every whisper)
Faint Whispers: 2 (for use)
Mind Warp:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Ritualist
Strength of Corax:
BD: 2 (for every dead BD)
Neutral: 1 (for every dead Neutral)

Brotherhood: 2 (if Cult needed it)

Seeker
Expose: 1 (for use)
Gaze:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Identify:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Invoker
Bewilder:
BD King: 2
Neutral King: 1
Cult King: 0

Chains:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1

Strings:
BD to BD: 2
BD to Neutral: 1
BD to Cult: 0
Neutral to BD: 2
Neutral to Neutral: 1
Neutral to Cult: 0

Neutral Points

Alchemist
Stoneskin: 2 (if needed)
Emerald: 2 (if killed)
Crimson: 2 (if healed)

Mercenary
1st Contract Survives: 3
2nd Contract Survives: 2
Guard: 2 (if needed)
Rebound: 3 (if killed)

Fool
If Executed before Day 3: 4
After Day 3: 2
Trollbox: 1 (for use)
Mojo: 2 (for use)
Deceive: 3 (if investigated)

Scorned
If a target Executed before Day 3: 4
After Day 3: 2
Trollbox: 1 (for use)
Frame: 2 (if they’re investigated)

Possessor
Puppet Strings: 3 (if killed)
Possess: 2 (if killed)

Reaper
Icy Touch: 1 (for use)
Gather Darkness: 2 (if needed)
Reap: 3 (if killed)

King Points

Good King
Starter King Win: 4
Guard:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: 0

Allies:
BD: 1
NonBD: 2

RoyalFinger:
BD: 0
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: 2

DecideFate:
Guilty-
BD: -1
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: 2

Pardon:
BD: 2
Neutral: 0
Unseen/Cult: -1

Evil King
Starter King Win: 4
Guard:
BD: 0
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: 2

Allies:
Unseen/Cult: 2
NonUnseen/Cult: 1

RoyalFinger:
BD: 2
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: 0

DecideFate:
Guilty-
BD: 2
Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult: -1

Pardon:
BD: -1
Neutral: 0
Unseen/Cult: 2

Neutral King
Starter King Win: 4
Guard: 2 (for use)
Allies: 2 (for use)
RoyalFinger: 1 (for use)
DecideFate: 1 (for use)

General Points

Votes of Execution/Pardon

BD exe BD: -1
BD exe Unseen/Cult: 1
BD exe Neutral: 0

BD pard BD: 2
BD pard Unseen/Cult: -1
BD pard Neutral: 0

Unseen/Cult exe Unseen/Cult: 0
Unseen/Cult exe Neutral: 1
Unseen/Cult exe BD: 2

Neutral: 1 point for every exe/pard

Any Abstains: 0 points

Royal Blood
Stepping Up: 2 Points
Become King: 2 Points

Non Royal Blood
Stepping Up: 1 Point
Become King: 1 Point

Win: 2 Points
Draw: 1 Point
Loss: 0 Points

It’s a lot of Information, but it’s how I would write up the “Ranked” system. It promotes scum reading on a major level and it encourages players to think before they act.

4 Likes
#2

Couldn’t Fool/Scorned farm points by using their trollbox in really boring ways that nobody notices every day?

#3

If Fool is executed, they can’t use it, and Scorned should probably have their Trollbox disabled after winning anyway

#4

Fair enough.

#5

Speaking of which, that was actually in the latest patch:

Scorned:

  • Will no longer be able to use abilities once their targets are executed.
2 Likes
#6

I think some classes should get more for winning. Like reaper or possessor, because winning as one of those classes is really hard.

#7

if you score people not in winning or losing but on what actions they take the game then becomes about taking as many of those actions as possible rather than winning or losing .
Sometimes a valuable play is to be self sacrificing , on different situations it as a bad play .

imagine the case where you lost a game because rather than vote to kill a known unseen someone pardoned because he hoped to cold steal the guy at night to get an extra point . then at night he gets role blocked because someone else wants to farm an extra point …

Also you seem to love killing neutral for points . sometime not killing a neutral is the right play .
let’s all kill the alchemist even though he is able to help us win . point farm yaya

#8

I think you’re forgetting a key factor: The one point difference that puts the game at risk (preventing you from getting more points, in some situations) wouldn’t be worth it, and you would learn that quick even if you weren’t aware of it initially.

#9

Reread the OP. You don’t get any points for winning as anything.

#10

I don’t like the scoring system, because people will become saltier about dying.

#11

All I really see in your post is a bunch of filler my good sir.

#12

Interesting idea, Plex.

Pros:

Accurately give players credit regardless of conversion
Rewards players for making good decisions

Cons:

Abusable (players would work together to farm points to each other)
Subjective point distribution (Policy killing neutrals for points as BD is debatable, as is the 5 points for a Prince revival)

It solves the conversion problem but has some arbitrary numbers attached to it. Of course, this is simply a rough draft of it, but how valuable are certain actions compared to others? And in game solved scenarios, couldn’t BD or Unseen just occupy or otherwise disable somebody so that abilities could be spammed each night for more points? You’d have to make a rule where spamming abilities on the same player does not give additional points when it becomes obvious farming is happening. But then this philosophy causes could cause normal players to not want to investigate or otherwise occupy or target somebody two nights in a row because it isn’t point efficient, but could be the right move.

It’s a complex suggestion. You’re right.

#13

That’s what they did in overwatch. You got mercy mains not rezzing carry players and not healing anyone so they could get a massive resserruct and massively boost their elo. You got people prioritising getting any kills over important kills and team play to boost elo.

Any system which encourages players to do anything other than win is broken and will be abused to shit.

#14

However, any system built around only winning is also broken

#15

Not really. Statistically everyone’s gonna have the same amount of throwers on their team, the same amount of shitty and useless roles, the same amount of starting evil kings.

The only variable is skill. If you play enough games you will always win more the more skilled you are.

1 Like
#16

No, random chance is a variable. If you are running repeated trials, and there is a random element you don’t control, you can’t just say “Because it is random it probably evens out”

#17

Rope that is how statistics works you imbecile.

1 Like
#18
  1. Do not call me an imbecile
  2. No they are not. In a large sample size, yes, it is; however, with 15 players and as little as 3 in a faction, a “small” variable like game throwers is significant
#19

The sample size is the number of games you play not the 16 players lol.

If I play 1000 games, which I’m sure I will over the next year or two, and you play 1000 games, I guarantee we would have significant differences in our win%. We’d have the same amount of trolls and morons (more or less) and the only real difference would be our skill.

:slight_smile:

1 Like
#20

This is simply incorrect.

There is a random variable, and random variables do not necessarily even out for every one. Not only that, but you need to factor in random occupies preventing my points, random assassinations, etc.