Fighting "he could be fool" as scorned

The other differences do matter. The more variation among evil roles, the more he is confined into playing a specific role as opposed to a vague “some sort of evil” role.

For instance, a fool who starts the game off by claiming “evil” but randomly gets the mastermind executed can be excluded as unseen, and is no longer a vague “some sort of evil”.

And executing the mastermind is just a single clue, this is just an example. In a real game there will be a multitude of clues with which you can narrow down someone’s class.

Claiming evil early game would fall just into ridiculous awful play. It’s the extreme stupid case, and the fact that it sometimes works is an extreme amazing inditement of how the class’s potential is negative.

and your own example falls into pure luck. In the sense that by your own description he gets the MM “randomly”, when the hypothetical fool would have most likely been trying to get a random BD to make himself look scummy. So yes that’s bad luck, falls into the less likely than getting killed by the NK on n1 category.

The issue is in the “multitude” of clues as you say, the only one that I can think of that aren’t almost perfect overlaps with almost every actual evil, is “might happen to hit MM”. Bussing is a thing so, anything other than MM doesn’t do much to narrow down. Logs claiming actions that are contradicted by evidence (IE say observer noting supposed visit didn’t happen, supposed results not matching etc…) points both too evil and fool. Unseen/cult result from sheriff/pali… also could be either. Class claim that doesn’t match princess flirt result… also parallel. Maid checking compatibility with a known BD, also equal.

Players acting in a way to disrupt or distract from catching the actual evils… yet another thing done by both fools and evils.

Honestly behavior, strategy etc… of myself when I’m evil and fool, is virtually identical. I rarely if ever go out of my way, because I know statistically most evils are going to be found via all the methods to catch evils, and fool isn’t an exception. The only way you can possibly catch a fool, is a bad player trying too hard and playing with the goal to win on day 2. A long con fool is for all practical purposes indistinguishable from an actual evil.

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Or an idiot

Don’t forget that you don’t need to act like scum if you act dumb instead

I’ve Claimed evil

  • “Bad obs logs mean either fool or evil”

No, bad obs logs just means fool. Nobody should try faking obs logs.

  • “Fake investigative results mean either fool or evil”

Without further information the probability of fool is extremely tiny. I am sure you would readily acknowledge this since there’s generally only 1 fool, 3 unseen/cult, 1 nk, and perhaps another evil neut. That makes the chance of fool only 17% voting blindly on a single criterion.

Unseen/cult result from sheriff/pali… also could be either. Class claim that doesn’t match princess flirt result… also parallel. Maid checking compatibility with a known BD, also equal.

The clues are in the context. Princess called Phys k/o? If it was publicly known that the phys was confirmed, it’s probably a fool pretending to be mastermind. Otherwise, it’s probably the actual mastermind.

A long con fool is for all practical purposes indistinguishable from an actual evil.

No, because clues are gathered with time. And besides prince and knight there are drunk and butlers with which to neutralize a threat while you execute the other sus, but less foolish, people.

I never said “bad obs logs” I said logs contradicted by an observer. AKA the knight that was guarding Sam, on the same night an observer was watching Sam, and the observer noticed no one visited.

Because the best example of what princesses do, is spend their time checking confirmed people. Actually I’m more confused by your example. Phys claim comes up K/O… that points equally towards fool, assasain and NK. (I’ll give you barring better evidence it’s not quite enough), BUT it more or less weighs equally to all 3, it doesn’t help you read any closer or further from any of those, other than eliminating BD (with the exception of scorned frame).

Which is good, IF they happen to be available, not the already converted ones… and of course if it isn’t fool that it’s not something like a possesor, MM etc… or that even if it is evil that it hasn’t burned out it’s times being occupied, and that a sellsword doesn’t protect it etc…

There’s reasons why with the exception of fool… executing confirmed non BD, is and should be the top priority, and I’m still looking for a second working example of evidence or behavior that helps you discern a fool from other evils.

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Or a reason having them is at all even remotely not bad

Haven’t heard that either (variety is not an argument when purely bad variety is detrimental not helpful)

I never said “bad obs logs” I said logs contradicted by an observer. AKA the knight that was guarding Sam, on the same night an observer was watching Sam, and the observer noticed no one visited.

X gets put on stand, claims knight defending king (obviously sam is king), but obs claim says that’s false? The clues to whether he is a fool lie in what let to him being put on trial in the first place.

My example of mastermind calling a phys k/o was supposed to be stereotypical, because they often use foresight results as fake flirt results but it classifies phys as k/o.

Phys claim comes up K/O… that points equally towards fool, assasain and NK.

That’s why it points more towards mastermind than the others and hopefully suffices as the second working example you asked for

I wrote a 3-point argument earlier when @Kirefitten couldn’t for her own position

try again

Ici already responded but fine

Bad variety is still bad, just said that

Bad variety is still bad, just said that

Bad variety is still bad, just said that

That was one (bad) point and three aspects of it

image

That isnt bad variety

Hjasik we’ve been having this conversation for a while and you’ve literally given less than Shrimpy

You’re right. It’s just bad since the variety is covered by Scorned

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Which does anything good Fool does infinitely better

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Fool plus scorned gives more variety

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Variety =/= Good

A redundant class is the opposite of variety

Its Good in this case