[FM] Geyde PFPs Joat9 - THE LYING DARKNESS AND FIREMAN WINS (2/2)

[Arete]

No.

Fuck off.

I summarized my case for you, every fucking point I made was explained in my Iso and if you aren’t willing to re-read my posts because I didn’t make them in a pretty dressed-up wallpost that’s. On. You.

My points don’t get less valid just because I make them spread across multiple posts.

Summary

@Arete

my case against Nappy/Kyo is that

• that slot had TMI, both in their case on me/Ami and in how they treated Jane at EoD
• that slot (as both Nappy and Kyo) has been extremely agenda-y, like Kyo pushed Marshalkat for giving PR cover despite the fact that that’s a strategy he’s familiar with and has employed himself (and then tried to cover up the fact that he was familiar with the strategy )
• that slot (as both Nappy and Kyo) has had an extremely narrow focus – like, I get that we’re both tunnelled, tunnelling isn’t inherently scummy, but they’ve made no attempt at solving other slots except in pre-flippy ways
• that slot (mostly as Nappy) has been super performative
• that slot (as Kyo) has, like, borderline openwolved (this is about Kyo calling for a quickhammer three hours into the day)
• on a meta-level they aren’t even in their ““town-meta”” , like, they’ve been getting meta-clears for things that Kyo … has done in the wolf game he just finished …

@an_gorta_pratai

What about Nappy having TMI? You never made a big thing explaining that either

and this post is actually just blatantly false

Summary

@Arete

this discrediting of Ami’s read on you when she … hasn’t said anything about how many posts she’s read … is wolfy

you discrediting it in this particular way while claiming to scumread us is wolfier

like

if you think that we’re scum

and you think that Ami’s read is superficial

then the logical conclusion would be ‘Ami’s read is superficial (because she’s scum),’ not ‘Ami’s read is superficial (because she’s not reading my posts)’

and the fact that you jumped to the latter makes me feel like you have TMI that our slot is V

/vote Napoleon

[Arete]

Like

I am demonstrably capable of writing wallposts as any alignment

I am demonstrably capable of writing wallposts I don’t believe in

So why do you keep pushing the lack of a carefully layed-out wallpost as AI

this is not a rhetorical question

[Arete]

the worst part is, if you’re town you’re not even going to learn from this, you’re never going to think ‘hm, maybe wolfreading someone for being dissimilar to a wolf game was a bad idea,’ you’re going to think ‘wow, I was right on Kyo, my gut is really good, why is Arete being so ~mean~ about the fact that I’ve ignored or misinterpreted literally every point they’ve made all game’

[Arete]

@Arete

I[Gorta]'ve ignored or misinterpreted literally every point they’ve made all game

…and as I write this line of course I find myself thinking ‘maybe I was wrong about Gorta’s alignment’

but like

I don’t want to believe they’d be this bad as wolf

I don’t want to believe they’d be this bad as town, either, but the fact remains that I do

[Marshal]

arete

I think you are 100% right in this conversation

but please like chill a little

maybe just sleep

this is getting kinda scary and I don’t particularly like it

[Arete]

this post scares me because it feels like you know my alignment

[Arete]

as in like a TMI way

[Marshal]

This isn’t like a AI thing I will say that up front

I’d say this regardless of any of anyones alignments including my own

I agree with you in the argument but you seem super tilted and I want you to please just relax and don’t let the game get to you

This isn’t an alignment to alignment thing

this is a thing I, marshal, am saying to you, arete, just like as a friend

[Arete]

@Marshal

I want you to please just relax and don’t let the game get to you

you are several days too late on this one my friend

[Marshal]

I’ll admit your passive-agressivity was like funny at first

but it’s getting bad and kind of mean even if I agree with what you are saying

and you can say like “haha TMI” or fucking whatever I don’t care I just don’t want to see you like this anymore

So please like take a break or whatever I get how frustrating being misrepresented is but you are normally a chill person and I don’t like what’s been happening

[Arete]

@Marshal

I don’t like what’s been happening

I don’t either I’m just really frustrated

[Marshal]

I get that

being told a meme about a confident wolfread was preflipping and that you were wolf for trying to discredit an incorrect scumread on you was uh really fucking annoying

and like I agree with you on the argument, the reasons presented against you specifically from gorta are not good and you have disproven them

I don’t think it’s specifically AI because i’d expect you to be frustrated at bad reasons against you as either alignment (I do think it is again super not-w/w) but I understand that it’s frustrating

Please just like don’t let it get super aggressive, you can attack the poor quality of the reads and the case but it is getting slightly personal and I don’t want that and I think nobody does.

[Marshal]

I don’t know what or if insistence in sticking to the case which has been basically proven wrong says about gorta’s alignment

I’d say villagery at first but staying with it is wolfy because now it’s just an unjustifiable read on someone that is still there anyways

but then KyoDaz existed

but kyodaz at least conceded that his read on me and kat was NAI even if he was caught lying multiple times anyways

[an_gorta_pratai]

response

@Arete

If you actually think I’m a wolf here you should be able to answer this question.

I really don’t know what goes on in your head when you play this and I can understand the actions a player takes, but being a gut reader I don’t usually try to analyze every move someone makes unless I heavily SR them and I have tried my best to understand your plays. I don’t know why you (successfully) tried to push a villager that was obvious town over the shody claim of said towny having TMI. I don’t know why you had that weird push on Marhal/Katze d1. I really don’t, but in my opinion those actions lead to you being a wolf more times than town. I acknowledge that I could be wrong, but the last time I second guessed my read was lynched much later and was the actual wolf, so that’s why I am so insistent here.

@Arete

Nothing about my play here makes any fucking sense in worlds where I’m a wolf. Like, yes, I was wrong on Kyo! I am aware I was wrong on Kyo! But like.

If I were a wolf Marshal would’ve died N1 because I was hard-JoaT-reading him, the fact that I was doing so is visible in my Iso. If I were a wolf I never kill sulit/orange after that slot insists I’m just town, like, you can check my previous wolf games, unless I have strong mech reasons I don’t WifoM my kills as scum.

That argument only really applies if you were alone, as you have a partner who might disagree and make a better read and y’all kill that

@Arete

If I were a wolf I have no reason to go out of my way to antagonize your slot. If I were a wolf I’d be perfectly happy to answer every inane question that anyone this game cares to ask. If you actually think about my actions they don’t make sense from the perspective of a wolf basically ever but no, aReTe WaS wRoNg AnD dIdN’t WrItE a WaLlPoSt So ThEy MuSt Be Scum.

You have all the reason to push against us because we are the ones pushing you the hardest and we won’t back down. If I was a wolf in your position I would do anything I can to discredit said slot.

@Arete

I summarized my case for you, every fucking point I made was explained in my Iso and if you aren’t willing to re-read my posts because I didn’t make them in a pretty dressed-up wallpost that’s. On. You.

and it was a weak case that was an obviously bad execution

@Arete

So why do you keep pushing the lack of a carefully layed-out wallpost as AI

If the reasons are good it doesn’t have to be super pretty, just functionable and I don’t think your case was good and FMPoV it looked like you were pushing a bad execution on purpose after someone started pushing you

@Arete

the worst part is, if you’re town you’re not even going to learn from this, you’re never going to think ‘hm, maybe wolfreading someone for being dissimilar to a wolf game was a bad idea,’ you’re going to think ‘wow, I was right on Kyo, my gut is really good, why is Arete being so ~mean~ about the fact that I’ve ignored or misinterpreted literally every point they’ve made all game’

If for some reason you are town and I was the driving force behind your execution I would probably add that to my experience and try to improve because you don’t get good at this game by just blindly taking whatever without some self-reflection and after thoughts. I also haven’t ignored your points, I just think they are poor. FMPoV I am trying to avoid another Anstreim type thing here and I hope you can understand that post game if you are town. I had a accurate gut read on Ans, but I didn’t pursue it and town lost. I am trying to be a bit more trusting of my gut here

@Marshal

you have disproven them

How?

@Marshal

I don’t know what or if insistence in sticking to the case which has been basically proven wrong says about gorta’s alignment

I don’t see how it has been proven wrong and I feel that my bit on Ami has practically been ignored, but I don’t want to be the one who concedes when he has a strong feeling about someone being a wolf and then losing because said person was actually a wolf and I second guessed myself.

@Marshal

but then KyoDaz existed

but kyodaz at least conceded that his read on me and kat was NAI even if he was caught lying multiple times anyways

If you are a wolf I wouldn’t be surprised, but I don’t think it’s likely

[Geyde]

Daily Reminder to drink water

[Marshal]

@an_gorta_pratai

@Marshal

you have disproven them

How?

I mean the “you never explained nap TMI” thing was like 100% proven wrong

and like I think

My points don’t get less valid just because I make them spread across multiple posts.

is like a sufficient counter-argument to what you are saying about arete never casing kyo

if someone drops a bunch of weak/unexplained reads, sure, ask them to make a wallpost case

but arete had clearly spent a lot of time giving a detailed case on Kyo

As far as i’m concerned I think that your reasoning on arete is weak

There isn’t much I actively scumread them for even

I’m just trying to make sure that my reasons for clearing them aren’t bad

@an_gorta_pratai

@Arete

if you are actually town and seriously think I’m a wolf why do you think I played, like, any part of this game the way I played it

I don’t know why you played this game the way you did, but in my opinion you are a wolf. Even someone like Marshal is having serious doubts about you and he has been hard defending you for a while

also I don’t see how me having doubts about arete (in LyLo, where I specifically said I would be doubting everyone) is AI for arete or an argument for your case and i’d appreaciate you don’t use me trying to figure out if my clears are valid as an argument that arete is wolf because that… doesn’t make sense? It almost feels like it TMI’s me town and I could see wolves looking at it from the angle of me seriously doubting arete and not just trying to solve motivations

I am probably just tired

[Arete]

@an_gorta_pratai

I don’t know why you (successfully) tried to push a villager that was obvious town

He was not obvious town for FUCK’S SAKe

EVERY REASON PEOPLE HAD TO TOWNREAD HIM WAS TERRIBLE

@an_gorta_pratai

over the shody claim of said towny having TMI. I

AND YOU ARE IGNORING. EVERY. OTHER. REASON. FOR MY READ

IF YOU AREN’T GOING TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO ANY OF MY POSTS WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING

@an_gorta_pratai

I acknowledge that I could be wrong, but the last time I second guessed my read was lynched much later and was the actual wolf, so that’s why I am so insistent here.

hey remember in Marblelympics when you called orange/sloth/Beeboy/Nanook/Duk3star W/W/W/W/W on D1

and they were all town

and you literally never reevaluated your read even after orange chainpushed like three consecutive wolves including two PRs

@an_gorta_pratai

You have all the reason to push against us because we are the ones pushing you the hardest and we won’t back down. If I was a wolf in your position I would do anything I can to discredit said slot.

you realize that wolves have a way of getting rid of players who inconvenience them right

nightkills

they are a thing that exists

you are aware of this fact

and

this thought DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE

because I have been actively trying to prevent your slot from being exe’d

like

do you really think anyone cares what I say about the quality of your play this game

do you really think I believe that anyone cares what I say about the quality of your play this game

@an_gorta_pratai

and it was a weak case that was an obviously bad execution

Fuck off.

If my case was weak you’d have been able to refute it beyond ‘maybe the reason he’s openwolfing is because you’re tunnelling him.’

If he was an ‘obviously bad execution’ you would have been able to explain the townread that I asked you, and everyone who shared it, to explain, because maybe you were seeing something I wouldn’t.

Your reasons for townreading him were correct but quite frankly they sucked.

Marshal I want you to know that I went downstairs and got a snack and when I came back I still felt like saying this.

@an_gorta_pratai

If the reasons are good it doesn’t have to be super pretty, just functionable

KYO WAS LITERALLY OPENWOLFING HOW IS THAT NOT A GOOD REASON FOR FUCK’S SAKE

[Marshal]

@an_gorta_pratai

Even someone like Marshal is having serious doubts about you and he has been hard defending you for a while

What does “someone like me” mean
why does this make arete more likely wolf
why can’t I just be wolf who’s like faking progression or trying to justify an arete push or something

@an_gorta_pratai I want all 3 of these answered

[Marshal]

Arete I want to talk to you for a second

Ignore gorta

why do you think the nightkills clear you especially since you are aware of the fact

I think that the orange/sulit nightkill spews me town but I haven’t really brought it up because I don’t think self-clearing off of this is that good

[Marshal]

I get that you JoaTread me/kat

your posts indicate that

and It’s something I think you have going for you, you treated me like a joat, but I didn’t die.

But I want you to explain why “I never WiFoM my nightkills and orange townread us” is a good reason

because like “I never do x thing as wolf” can be easily abused (see: poisonous) and there can be different motivations to killing them besides them townreading you and wanting to WiFoM it (strong townread of us, so never really MLable, and orange and sulit have both demonstrated skill in recent LyLo scenarios)

so i’m not convinced it’s a good reason and i’m not convinced you think it is either