WTF you think I would talk with pkr about my readlist and then we would have magically the same?
LUL
take this as opportunity to be able to read both of us
I guess if you thought I’m gonna just be nice and quiet with the person whose existence forces me to play kinda responsible and not just how I want, and talk with him about everything, then no, you’re wrong.
Okay this seems dishonest. I was the only person who is townreading Jgoes and that’s why I had to talk about it, right? Afaik I was asked for it
Don’t you mind when I omgus you? I want to hardtunnel you to death, but it’s so hard with your post restriction. So… idk. Idk really.
And yeah, I’m seeing your Luxy posts mostly as Geyde posts, I’m reading mostly his style. But just because you can’t post much, that doesn’t mean you’re just “locktown” like my “partner” thinks you are.
Lul, heading to work, can’t write much, and haven’t yet read the whole thread, it’s just so hecking much. But I will. Wanna do some pushes, even when I can’t use my usual methods, because of hecking post restrictions.
Btw @PokemonKidRyan , you can forget that. You can’t slap me. I’ve the higher post count, i can do what you want, and you should better be nicer to me
cries in post restriction
I do enjoy playing like this though.
Our chat is on the forums, we were also wondering what it meant that Jgoes/Chemist apparently have a Discord chat; in my opinion it’s because Chemist is new to our community and didn’t have an account, so a Discord server had to be created for the early game.
Anyway.
ARETE SCUM WEEEEH
I consistently get bad vibes from Arete’s posts. Not in a ‘this is scum 100% lynch’ way, in a ‘this has a high probability of being scum motivated.’ Unfortunately, I can’t really explain it very well. If I were to summarize it, I would say something like: “Arete talks a lot but does not get anywhere.” And it feels wrong to say that, because there is some progresison in their posts (like the flip on the Mercenary read)… in general though, I feel like Arete has been doing more talking than solving. It might just be my confbias rearing its ugly head, but I think I should put these concerns here.
The thread really is warping around Marshal and I agree with Arete in that sense. I feel like this makes Marshal more towny because considering the thread has been warping around him, it’s highly likely someone wants to lynch him (especially since he apparently doesn’t have a post restriction and that’s bad for scum if he’s town). The obvious answer would be Jgoes, but I’m still uncertain about his alignment. Marshal could still be scum here, and I do get bad vibes from some of his posts… I don’t know. I feel like I can’t really resolve Marshal’s alignment because of how many people have interacted with him, and I know for a fact I’m not great at analyzing interactions.
If I were to select a lynch today, I would probably choose someone who interacted with Marshal in a meaningful way, because there are people here who should be able to read into that person’s interactions much better than I will.
Priestess’ play completely puzzles me, because I don’t remember her ever trying to influence the thread as strongly as she does in this game.
Considering she has been town in the last few games I saw her in, maybe this is actually scum indicative? I still have yet to read that FoL game where she was Mastermind, although that was plenty of time ago and she’s in a hydra, so things have probably changed. I know that saying ‘she is trying to influence the thread’ is a bit of a stretch and anyone who read her ISO could disagree with me, but in general I feel like she’s trying to manipulate the thread’s conclusion. She is hyperfocused on Marshal despite posting a full readlist, and that’s probably the scummiest thing about her right now (although that’s not very strongly AI in itself. erghhhhh.).
Yeah I wrote a lot of words about Priestess/PKR but I still don’t have a strong conclusion about their alignment. I did read Luxy/Geyde’s take on that slot, but I’m not sure if I agree with it.
Other thoughts:
Squid thinks Priestess is scummy, and I kind of agree, but she is always scummy so fweh.
I find it interesting that Marshal is harddefending Nerbins, feels like TMI. If Marshal is town, probably the good kind of TMI (like a n0 greencheck or something, if that is even a thing in this setup). He immediately harddefended Nerbins as if I was pushing Nerbins or 100% scumreading him (which I wasn’t, and I even specified it). Relevant quote:
Feels like it came out of nowhere. I wasn’t even strongly scumreading Nerbins, just alarmed by his opener. The funnier thing is that Marshal completely dismisses talking about Nerbins from that point forward - when the discussion shifts away from him. It’s such a strong defense I have no idea where it’s coming from and I’m 99% sure it’s some form of TMI.
He does interact with Nerbins later, but the interactions are so lukewarm it’s jarring. Either Marshal has a N0 on Nerbins or at least one of them is scum because this doesn’t feel organic and TvT, especially since it’s day 1 and neither one of them should know the other is town.
Nerbins isn’t even that high on Marshal’s readlist. Marshal’s treatment of Nerbins doesn’t seem to match his behavior around Nerbins, and I think that’s scum AI because it indicates his readlist is very inaccurate / he does not care about it and posted it for the sake of generating content / gaining towncred maybe. In general I get bad vibes all over from this interaction. I know I already said I’m not very good at analyzing interactions but that one really stuck out to me.
My reads haven’t changed in a major way, but I think I’m going to do a lot of re-evaluating later. I keep swaying from townlean/scumlean when it comes to a few certain people.
I think FK’s opening post was great but not outside of his scumrange, the same goes for Luxy/Geyde, so I’m hesitant on both. sorry guys
One more thing I would like to point out is that Maximus feels more and more town to me every time he posts - and that I like Jake this game but the content of his posts could be substantially better because he’s in a hydra with Alice.
Yeah, I know. I’m hedging on a lot of reads here. This game is confusing to read because everybody is wallposting and I’m not used to analyzing predominantly wallposts. Taking us out of our comfort zone has really worked wonders.
Also I did like astand’s later posts, it feels like he is picking up steam and I like it.
I fully admit to that. I feel like everyone jumped way too fast on the Jgoes failed in Marshal’s “reactiontest”. Something is definitely wrong here in thread movement. Way too many people are scumreading Jgoes. This means for me: either Jgoes is getting bussed, or he’s just town. This all is unnatural. I don’t like the progression of Marshal on him at all.
Yes, thats why I tried to influence thread movement. good notice.
(Just for clarification; Ill go scumhunting again when Im not stuck on mobile)
Big take since everyone is town reading this hydra just because it is formed of two strong players: I dislike that post heavily. They accused me of something I did not do and when I justified myself, they just accused another person of it.
Also everyone accusing Arete of not doing anything when they imo are doing something. They have posted their reads not long ago and it isn’t purely sheeping the consensus.
Someone quote where Arete has been on a cyclical thoughtstate like everyone claims so and you will change my mind.
In the “everyone town reading them” part, it have gone uncontested for too far. I would say that it adds reasoning for this hydra to be both alignments (so it is NAI instead of an accusation). Considering that so far the only people who disagreed were the ones scumread by it, either:
Mafia is too scared to contest it and won’t do anything until it presses on a scum member
It is part of the mafia and the narrative benefits them, so they have no reason to disagree
Just analyzing here what is more likely to happen.
Why? We are the same slot its not like we’re neighbourised or anything it shouldn’t matter at all.
Maybe this is caused by a different approach to hydras, but Geyde and I are treating our class card as the thread and compiling our various thoughts into wallposts, we are playing like a single slot which it appears you two are not doing as you said. I still don’t believe that yourself and Priestess’ opinions can differ so much on our slot in only three hours. Can you point out what in my wallpost that makes us such a strong townlean and what posts made between Priestess’ post and your post that made us such a strong read, as you said?
So the order in the rankings did not determine how much you townread someone, because we believed that you put us first indicating we were your strongest townread.
Interesting, I find Jake, Vulgard/Poisoned squid extremely towny as pointed out before do you agree with our townreads outlined in the second wallpost or do you have new/more evidence to the contrary?
This is an eevee mafia academy the entire game is designed to be reads over mechanics, therefore, I do not think anyone can be mechanically cleared except maybe a member of the mafia (eevee would fuck with us like that).
Do you think Arete/Disquieted are scum? I don’t quite understand the last post.
We believe your conflicting reads were a result of fake reads being discussed in scumchat, and therefore, you forgot to make sure they were aligned as you forgot you were a hydra (because there is more than one other person in that chat, whereas there is only Geyde and I in ours). To us, we have been discussing each post in depth in order to make a conclusion and compiling that so we saw it as especially bad that your posts opinions did not mirror one anothers.
Our chat is just forums, yes.
Forums
I don’t think this discussion gets us anywhere, and it isn’t exactly within the spirit of the game.
Why aren’t you bouncing ideas off of one another in an attempt to solve?
I saw the posts, I quoted them in my class card and asked Geyde ‘I don’t think these posts ever come from scum!Marshal what do you think?’
Geyde replied ‘I agree.’
The read was based more upon Marshal’s behaviour in thread as mentioned after the quotes in the wallpost.
I don’t see why not, that’s what Geyde and I are doing and it makes sense. You have someone you know is town to bounce ideas off of and develop your reads with, why wouldn’t you make use of it?
This is so wishywashy it isn’t funny. The fact you were townreading Jgoes doesn’t matter, its the fact your repeatedly shifted the thread back to the Marshal/Jgoes interaction after you had townread him and after the thread had naturally shifted away from their interaction.
If you want to push us, push us: don’t shadethrow us by saying ‘I want to push you but I can’t because of post restrictions.’ This is a way to set up a mislynch in the future without actually exposing yourself to cross-examination.
My posts have mostly been my reads, sometimes expanded or critiqued by Geyde, since I have been slightly more active than Geyde, however, I have been using some of the words he uses as we have been discussing people’s posts in our class card and he used the terms which I added to my post to flesh out what we want to say. Why does it even matter if Geyde speaks through myself in the first place? We’re a hydra and the same slot so regardless of who’s mouth it comes from it still has the exact same meaning. This seems like a weird way of throwing shade on Geyde once again for almost nothing.
Finally, it’s really interesting to me that you ignored our main point on you, which was where we called you out for discrediting Geyde, and by extension, myself, based upon previous performance when it was only I who had posted at the time.Your lack of interaction with my post (and hedging on our slot) was also telling that you wanted to find a way to scumread us without any actual reasoning thereby, avoiding cross-examination once again. Why are you so scared of meaningful interaction? Additionally, you’ve been extraordinarily aggressive towards Marshal, which is something I’ve never seen from you before, why are you like this this game?
Evidence for your shifting to Marshal:
I agree, Arete has done nothing to make us think she’s town and her posts seem very performative when it comes to actually producing content. Nothing she says actually helps really except for that one comment on Marshal.
This is why we think Priestess may be scum, as they consistently shifted the thread back to Marshal/Jgoes which has the possibility of 2 mislynches if it is in fact a TvT.
Generally scum indicative to have a narrow game outlook and her aggressiveness towards Marshal screams tunneling scum to me.
Agreed.
This makes no sense considering you were the one yourself who shifted it back to Marshal/Jgoes when the thread had moved on. IIRC, everyone was in fact scumreading Marshal, especially as the thread was essentially Marshal v the World for some time in there, and Jgoes slipped by.
I don’t really know what Geyde was trying to achieve with that post, he told me he was fishing for reactions so I’ll ask him about it later when he is awake.
Looking at Arete she’s had no impact on the gamestate. Yes she’s posted reads but has she actually tried to push anything, achieve anything?
Arete:
As you can see she hasn’t made a single push all game. She scumreads Marshal and asks a few questions but she hasn’t pushed for his lynch or tried to pressure him at all. She also had only 1 scumread and everything else null/townreads which gives her a lot of space to shift her reads in the future if one of her mislynches makes themselves unlynchable. (If she is scum.)
I don’t know who was accusing her of having a cyclical thoughtstate, she’s just underwhelming at this point.
Again, Arete is null for us she hasn’t done anything that suggests town or scum to us, and thats why shes in the PoE.
We’ve already pointed out that people townreading us off of one post was particularly scummy because it appears that scum do not know how to treat out slot and will just nightkill us to get rid of us.
@Mercenary is there anything we have posted that you disagree with?
Anyway, the main point of this post is that PKR’s response to our scumread of them was ok, but Priestess’ was particularly bad and their interactions as a hydra don’t really make sense as a hydra unless they aren’t communicating as they claim. Priestess completely ignored our main point, and shadethrew whilst simultaneously making an excuse not to push us. Therefore, I still think the slot is particularly scummy.
Wow.
I haven’t read something that dishonest in quite a while. Give me a few hours, I have to type multiple wallposts.
If you’re town: shame on you. If you’re scum: whatever you try, it won’t work.
Wow.
I haven’t read something that dishonest in quite a while. Give me a few hours, I have to type multiple wallposts.
If you’re town: shame on you. If you’re scum: whatever you try, it won’t work.
I should honoredly inform you all that I will take a longg time to answer questions redirected at me since I’m occupied today (theorically with school stuff, realistically playing cardgame irl), and I may even only answer them at D2 (should they still be relevant).
The tone if this AtE is so bad. Like punishing town for making reads.
I will probably not join the Priestess/PKR discussion because of too many wallposts to consider.
I’m not gonna be very active for the next ~8 hours, but should be around then until EOD.
One thing to note is that pkreistess claim to not been using their hydra chat often, but are somehow united and have very similar reads against me and everyone else.
This could be scum agenda, but the question is it pushing towards a me/jgoes TVT or a me/jgoes TvS
Also one thing to note is priestess’s “I will post whenever and wherever I want! No one can stop me! I am breaking oppression!” Talk.
You wanna know where else I’ve heard that?
Sfol53, from yours truly. I was scum if you didn’t know.
I think we should shift some attention towards this hydra and try to figure them out. I’m off
I feel like my post made a culture clash of sort, or maybe people had a misconception of my position in the game.
My primary position here is to advise Arete in reads and other non-obvious ways to be a good townie. I’m not really here to do conventional hunting of mafia; this excludes making reads, pushes, and the like, though I may do it publicly for example purposes or maybe I’ll get bored. Usually that’s not what I do anyways even if I wasn’t in a mentor role, and to be perfectly honest I wasn’t expecting to post this game, but since eevee gave me the posts I might as well use them. And either way I find the, um, meta here curious now that I’m viewing it while in the moment, so to speak. You’re gonna find a lot more questions from me this game with no clear shading in of alignments, but maybe you’ll find the implied conclusions thought provoking yourself.
Not current at all, but I saw that being questioned and thought it deserved a response. I can already see my presence being kind of flaky, barely had the interest to come back to the thread after being busy in RL, I guess I just hope I don’t abandon my partner here. That would be embarrassing.
Shrug, FK is busy with school and stuff so I’ll just post this without running my opinions by him. Let’s see how I do!
Not gonna make an entire readlist as half of it would be null reads anyway.
In my eyes, there’s a high chance that the Marshal vs PKRiestess posting earlier is TvS - and I’m leaning more towards Priestess here. However, I do think the odds of this being SvS aren’t unreasonably high either.
I know Priestess is known for an interesting playstyle, and I can attest to that in ToL. Can’t really speak for her in forum games though…
But really, 150 posts later she brings this up again? Perhaps I’m looking too much into her ISO, because I know Vulgard mentioned the Priestess/Marshal dynamic, but this really doesn’t feel right to me. I also do agree with Luxy/Geyde here, her “push” on them is… lacking.
With that said, I don’t know how to feel about Marshal either. His ISO fluctuates in my mind all over the town to scum scale. In my eyes, he’s either scum or VT. And I’m leaning slightly towards the latter.
Besides Marshal/PKRiestess:
Luxy/Geyde: Most likely town, I don’t think a scum would put this much effort without pushing on people harder.
Kai: Scumlean or very bored town. Will go into this in a bit.
Arete/Disquieted: Sort of leaning scum, but this is just a hunch really. I don’t really like any of their posts though. And they seem kind of eager to clear Kai…
I honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm. It feels like it has to be… I understand a lot of Kais fluff came after this post, but seriously?
Very unhappy about your PR, but then you have so. many. fluffposts.
I feel like this is flying under the radar a little bit too. I get that reading wallposts isn’t easy, but it’s kind of useful to save your posts if it means you can actually use your vote. This post on it’s own actually reads kind of scummy to me.
Seriously, this isn't even all of his fluff.
Maybe I’m misreading a bored town as scum, but I don’t like Kai either.
I think that’s all I got for now. Didn’t think I’d ever do a wallpost but here I am…
So here’s my contribution for this little segment of time I guess. I’ll abstain from talking about the main topic of PKR/Priestess, and given what people have been saying about it I don’t really want to offer this as a lynch option so to speak but I’d like to know what’s going on here. Maybe you’ll find my opinion about them later when I talk to Arete about it.
As the person above me accurately notes, Kai has been aggressively fluffposting and people I think have taken note. Or Kai wants it to be taken note of. Whatever, my point is that it’s a control subject of how someone can act in this position. I’d lean townie over it given he would rationally have made himself a target over it, which no real scummer would have done. But hey, it could be a personality quirk, I don’t know many of you.
Anyways, what I’d draw attention to is SirDerpsALot. He has a significant amount of posts, third highest, even. He has given some reads, they aren’t very well formed, which is, sure, people are allowed to say what they want in 2019 and have it not be alignment indicative.
There has been a significantly less amount of attention on SirDerpsALot’s lack of content. Maybe I’m skimming way too hard but he’s not been mentioned much, nobody’s asking him for his opinion.
Am I missing a meta characteristic? Is this normal? Because I find people who slip under the radar in this respect are quite worrying. Sometimes it happens by design of the player, they kinda try and avoid confrontation cause they’re a mafia member. Sometimes they’re just ignored by a significant informed minority because they’re their teammate. Or maybe it’s just a quirk of the gamestate. Either way this post was designed to poke around and see what people are thinking there.
I don’t really seek to control conversation or a push here, just want to see what happens when I make this post. Might as well make one, it could likely be the last one I make for the day. I’ll try and rendezvous with Arete later… sigh.
Absolutely! Let me address this into multiple parts:
1 - Since reading up on your post and Arete’s I’ve spoken to Eevee and posting in our classcard will not cause me to lose posts I can be using here. This means that myself and @anon97870008 will be communicating more often now that we know it’s a viable option.
2 - What in your wallpost made you such a townlean?
Quick Summary of Luxy Wallpost
A simple comparison but one which showed a decent analysis (Like I had tried to do within my wallpost after taking inspiration from you somewhat)
More discussion and in depth analysis which shows that everything has been considered. These are just 2 examples (So I don’t end up quoting the entire thing) but you analysed things meticulously which to me suggests you’re both confident in your role and that you’re town
Marshal’s post #58 felt off. Can’t tell if it was just tonally defensive or if I just felt there was no point to it at the time. Yes, I know it could be interpreted as “It was just Marshal saying how to vote” but it felt weak pockety.
Marshal’s post #68 felt off too as well. I liked the post itself because it’s a simple truth. But then I thought about the intentions behind it and it felt somewhat pockety again
Squid’s #70 I disliked due to it basically feeling either pockety (If Squid hydra is scum and I’m misreading Marsh) or like a scumbuddy defending their scummate. It felt like they were doubling down on earlier to post an easier mislynch.
Derps’ #74 was just… fluff, nothing more, nothing less. A waste. And #77 again was just nothing, no analysis just a passing comment.
Marsh #79 shortly followed in reply to Derps’ #77 and it again felt pockety somewhat “I know you can do it, so do it” and it kept feeling like Marsh has been going for cheap easy towncred anyone could go for.
Nerbins’ #93 was just… ridiculous tbh. And did not feel townie at the time but also felt somewhat twtbaw.
(I can’t put much more in or else the thread’s gonna progress without me here)
No. Everyone in my ranking of 8 means I read you all at the same level. You going first was just because it was the one I thought of most easily.
I’ll go more into this later (Quoting and scrolling is a bitch on mobile)
But Jake felt slightly off (Hence why slightly more scum than null) and Squid felt just… defensive of Marshal a bit too much which made me question intentions.
My role is about reads though. And if my reads are incorrect it can cause us to lose. If Eevee like you said designed the game to be reads over mechanics then a role (Mechanic) that is based off reads and read skill would make perfect sense I would think.
Also no, absolutely not. I would pick Arete/Disquieted because out of my 8 reads they’re the ones I am slightly more confident in.
I do apologise that I had made this mistake, but I did explain why we did not do this and why I had not been using our classcard to chat until this point.
I am delighted to hear that your chat is actually on the forums, because it does prove that I’m not necessarily being scummy from the contradiction with Chemist/Jgoes team and that my 2nd explanation may be correct for them. I know you said further below it “Isn’t exactly within the spirit of the game” but I wasn’t using it to angleshoot, moreso explain why our things may be different.
Again we had not communicated before this, but we do plan to do so from now on.
Also I pinged Priestess inside this spoiler because I want her to read it. I hope it will be useful for discussion from now on.
So. Let’s commit wallpost.
Just to say it first: my browser died multiple times he didn’t want to commit wallpost
One question. Where is… Alice???
Marshal:
first 3 posts: pinging everyone.
Marshal did not soft, this is just a lie on this point.
The “reactiontest”. Mhm. The results:
Why would you townread me for ignoring you? confused Why is Shurian townread for this? Jgoes called you out for your bullshit, I would have done the same, if I wouldn’t have typed to that time… you didn’t even let me time to react!
Then Marshal spent his time to do a complete meta read on Jgoes just to shade him more: https://forum.imperium42.com/t/fm-mafia-academy-1-day-1-18-18/78994/31?u=priestess
The definition of OMGUS.
AKA the reasoning for this “reactiontest” was… catching anyone who calls you out for your shit and then scumread him for it? I mean, what the hell? Also, why should eevee give you no post restriction. I think you just ignore your post restriction to be able to powerwolf more and distract the thread?
TMI in my eyes. None of them explicitely called PR = post restriction
So this is worldbuilding.
I do not wholeheartely disagree with this. This is just lulposting some stupid anti-town stuff and then shading anyone who calls you out.
Wait what now. Was this “reactiontest” now for catching Jgoes, or for townreading bystanders who didn’t even have enough time to react
Scumpost. For real. Nothing of what you say is true.
Then do. Because I’ve seen not a single real read from you, just some antitown lulposts.
Well, why do you shade me now then, if you know you can’t read me?
Well look how your reaction test ended… lul. I guess we just were to the wrong time on the wrong place.
… more fluffposts, more lulposts, more antitown behaviour…
And like you know, I was BD, and I was jail executed by PKR, who is now my hydra partner. Irony of fate, or just a cruel host? Who knows. Yes, I will try to play this game as good as I can, but no, I will not cooperate and let my reads getting influenced by someone who executed me 3 days ago for “non claiming”. just because he failed in ISOing me. No thanks.
Yes, it’s my first time as hydra, and PKRs first time too, but I don’t see a reason why I should be forced to share my thoughts with him. @PokemonKidRyan
I have some more reads on Derps and Geyde/Luxy I want to share, but yeah, my browser hates me already
These are my top 4 scumreads.
But yeah, let’s let my pc cool down a bit.
Scum wants to control the thread. Scum doesn’t want attention on them.
Conveniently Marshal’s “reactiontest” made him unable to do that, and he said he expected people to ignore him.
I’ve already said that It was obviously fake. So either scum was faking it or to was doing a reactiontest (But iirc Marshal’s reactiontests weren’t as obvious, and actually had a point, so I said that option was unlikely.) It’s not impossible, since I have seen bad reactiontests come from town (Like Derps in Old Ruins).
I’m assuming you’re going to ask me why he would make it so obviously fake as scum, and I think he did that so he could fall back on it being a reactiontest.
Which is exactly what he did, and he used that as an excuse to try to steer the thread towards a lynch on his accuser.
I hope I’ll have enough time to do my meta-read on him before EoD, but I’ve been very busy all day, and I can’t do it right now, since I’m at a restaurant with my parents.
good notice.
