[FM] Mafia Academy 1 - Mafia Victory

[Marshal]

@Marshal

didn’r tead

R. T

[Vulgard]

I might not be able to write any more posts until the day ends, so I will share a few more thoughts.

I still don’t feel good about the Arete/Disquieted slot and it’s probably my top scumread as of right now.

@disquieted

I feel like my post made a culture clash of sort, or maybe people had a misconception of my position in the game.

My primary position here is to advise Arete in reads and other non-obvious ways to be a good townie. I’m not really here to do conventional hunting of mafia; this excludes making reads, pushes, and the like, though I may do it publicly for example purposes or maybe I’ll get bored. Usually that’s not what I do anyways even if I wasn’t in a mentor role, and to be perfectly honest I wasn’t expecting to post this game, but since eevee gave me the posts I might as well use them. And either way I find the, um, meta here curious now that I’m viewing it while in the moment, so to speak. You’re gonna find a lot more questions from me this game with no clear shading in of alignments, but maybe you’ll find the implied conclusions thought provoking yourself.

Not current at all, but I saw that being questioned and thought it deserved a response. I can already see my presence being kind of flaky, barely had the interest to come back to the thread after being busy in RL, I guess I just hope I don’t abandon my partner here. That would be embarrassing.

I hate this post so much. It attempts to excuse the bad opener (in my eyes) with a high amount of words that ultimately mean nothing for the match. And yes, I did go through it all the first time around, but I’m surprised I finished reading it. It is very easy to write posts like these as scum, because you can use the emotions you truly feel and write a massive word salad that looks genuine (because it is) but ultimately means nothing.

@disquieted

So here’s my contribution for this little segment of time I guess. I’ll abstain from talking about the main topic of PKR/Priestess, and given what people have been saying about it I don’t really want to offer this as a lynch option so to speak but I’d like to know what’s going on here. Maybe you’ll find my opinion about them later when I talk to Arete about it.

As the person above me accurately notes, Kai has been aggressively fluffposting and people I think have taken note. Or Kai wants it to be taken note of. Whatever, my point is that it’s a control subject of how someone can act in this position. I’d lean townie over it given he would rationally have made himself a target over it, which no real scummer would have done. But hey, it could be a personality quirk, I don’t know many of you.

Anyways, what I’d draw attention to is SirDerpsALot. He has a significant amount of posts, third highest, even. He has given some reads, they aren’t very well formed, which is, sure, people are allowed to say what they want in 2019 and have it not be alignment indicative.

There has been a significantly less amount of attention on SirDerpsALot’s lack of content. Maybe I’m skimming way too hard but he’s not been mentioned much, nobody’s asking him for his opinion.

Am I missing a meta characteristic? Is this normal? Because I find people who slip under the radar in this respect are quite worrying. Sometimes it happens by design of the player, they kinda try and avoid confrontation cause they’re a mafia member. Sometimes they’re just ignored by a significant informed minority because they’re their teammate. Or maybe it’s just a quirk of the gamestate. Either way this post was designed to poke around and see what people are thinking there.

I don’t really seek to control conversation or a push here, just want to see what happens when I make this post. Might as well make one, it could likely be the last one I make for the day. I’ll try and rendezvous with Arete later… sigh.

This is not any better. I would honestly not be surprised if disquieted’s negative tone is a result of them rolling scum. Look how much fluff that post contains.

@disquieted

Anyways, what I’d draw attention to is SirDerpsALot. He has a significant amount of posts, third highest, even. He has given some reads, they aren’t very well formed, which is, sure, people are allowed to say what they want in 2019 and have it not be alignment indicative.

There has been a significantly less amount of attention on SirDerpsALot’s lack of content. Maybe I’m skimming way too hard but he’s not been mentioned much, nobody’s asking him for his opinion.

Am I missing a meta characteristic? Is this normal? Because I find people who slip under the radar in this respect are quite worrying. Sometimes it happens by design of the player, they kinda try and avoid confrontation cause they’re a mafia member. Sometimes they’re just ignored by a significant informed minority because they’re their teammate. Or maybe it’s just a quirk of the gamestate. Either way this post was designed to poke around and see what people are thinking there.

I don’t really seek to control conversation or a push here, just want to see what happens when I make this post. Might as well make one, it could likely be the last one I make for the day. I’ll try and rendezvous with Arete later… sigh.

Disquieted… starts talking about Derps, then starts discussing the fact nobody is talking about him, then starts talking about meta, then says they are not looking for a push. …So what are they looking for? They have accomplished absolutely nothing. They failed to clear their slot. Their game has no direction whatsoever.

Arete’s posts have been less scummy but Disquieted’s posts have been downright terrible in my book… and neither player in the hydra has truly attempted to advance the gamestate. Ew.

At this point I’m 100% convinced there is scum between Priestess/PKR and Marshal, because the thread is unnaturally warping around their interactions and this does not just ‘happen’ without scum getting involved.

I want Jgoes to resume posting because I want to see his progression from the initial Marshal tunnel; Chemist’s posts have not strongly pinged me one way or the other but in comparison to Jgoes, they seem unmotivated. Jgoes suddenly disappearing from the thread is also a bad look. It feels like he allowed his hydra partner to continue playing day 1 for him, and I know this is angleshooty, but why is that the case? In theory, if Jgoes had no idea how to progress from the Marshal tunnel, he could let his partner take the wheel.

I know making a connection like that is likely to lead to confbias, but I generally don’t feel very good about that slot either. I have a history of misreading Jgoes, however, so ultimately I don’t think I should put him in my scumbox yet; definitely not in my townbox either. I just feel bad about the slot overall because of how it dropped off after the early game. I have never seen Jgoes drop off after playing 3-4 games with him where he was always town. His motivation to play and do stuff is generally consistent, so I have no idea what happened here. That is why I really want to see his progression to figure out his alignment.

Marshal/Priestess… I honestly have no idea which of the two slots is scum. Both slots have pinged me. A part of me believes Marshal is the scum because of his tone.

@Marshal

One thing to note is that pkreistess claim to not been using their hydra chat often, but are somehow united and have very similar reads against me and everyone else.

This could be scum agenda, but the question is it pushing towards a me/jgoes TVT or a me/jgoes TvS

Also one thing to note is priestess’s “I will post whenever and wherever I want! No one can stop me! I am breaking oppression!” Talk.

You wanna know where else I’ve heard that?

Sfol53, from yours truly. I was scum if you didn’t know.

I think we should shift some attention towards this hydra and try to figure them out. I’m off

This post feels like agenda if scum!Marshal is considered. ‘Please shift attention to Priestess/PKR, scumread them more.’ He does not have very good reasons to scumread the slot (or at least, he does not express them in his post), but he throws a bunch of shade with no analysis. “OoooOoooOOoOOO, look at this hydra, they might be evil. OoooOOoOOo.”

@Marshal

I think we should shift some attention towards this hydra and try to figure them out.

This part completely puzzles me considering what he said before.

@Marshal

In all seriousness, i would be very down for the preistess/pkr lynch because of preistess being hella scummy and the lack of progression from pkr to push the scum!marshal narrative
(especially after i point out their conflicting reads)

Like priestess claims i have’nt used any logic to back up my posts, even though i have provided thoguht-out reasoning for my scumreads.

I think the possobility for the whiteknight is there but i’m really just getting more “scumteam” vibes from preistess/pkr and jgoes/chemist.

Im okay wwith lynching either slot.

He was strongly scumreading the slot. But now he says a mild statement about Priestess/PKR: “I think we should shift some attention towards this hydra and try to figure them out.” So… is he pretending he has not figured the hydra out? When did the read change into a potential townread? He was pegging Priestess/PKR and Jgoes/Chemist as his top two scumreads not long before. This makes no sense. It feels like he was trying to sound reasonable with his last post, and that is why the statement is so strange. Because he wanted to write a reasonably-sounding post when he clearly did not feel like being reasonable.

It is possible Marshal is just erratic town because so many things he says do not seem to make much sense together. I know, this might seem like a weird conclusion to reach, but I honestly don’t think everything I wrote above makes him scum. It just makes him weirdly erratic. His play does have direction, he just… does plenty of strange things, and the fact he has no post restriction does not help me read him whatsoever.

Now, Priestess/PKR… now that feels like agenda.

@anon97870008

she is trying to influence the thread’ is a bit of a stretch and anyone who read her ISO could disagree with me, but in general I feel like she’s trying to manipulate the thread’s conclusion

I fully admit to that. I feel like everyone jumped way too fast on the Jgoes failed in Marshal’s “reactiontest” . Something is definitely wrong here in thread movement. Way too many people are scumreading Jgoes. This means for me: either Jgoes is getting bussed, or he’s just town. This all is unnatural. I don’t like the progression of Marshal on him at all.
Yes, thats why I tried to influence thread movement. good notice.
(Just for clarification; Ill go scumhunting again when Im not stuck on mobile)

This feels LAMIST. “Yes, you are indeed correct, but here is why this makes me town so shut it. Also Jgoes is town.” The suggestion of Jgoes getting bussed seems ridiculous to me because the thread has not been going in that direction whatsoever, so it feels like Priestess is not fully in alignment with the movement of the thread - or at least wasn’t. Because now, she is the one moving the thread.

@anon97870008

Wow.
I haven’t read something that dishonest in quite a while. Give me a few hours, I have to type multiple wallposts.
If you’re town: shame on you. If you’re scum: whatever you try, it won’t work.

This attitude is terrible and it terrifies me. She sounds so high-and-mighty in this match, like she feels in control.

@anon97870008

So. Let’s commit wallpost.
Just to say it first: my browser died multiple times he didn’t want to commit wallpost
One question. Where is… Alice???

I bolded a part that feels tacked-on. Why does this matter to her? It feels like she felt the need to add something ‘towny’ to her post. Also, she suddenly switches to a jokey tone and relaxed attitude before her Marshal ISO. This is incoherent, but also seems deliberate.

@anon97870008

Marshal:
first 3 posts: pinging everyone.

@anon97870008

Marshal did not soft, this is just a lie on this point.

She does not explain why either is scummy. She does not even explain the lie.

@anon97870008

The “reactiontest”. Mhm. The results:

Notice how her tone changes to the high-and-mighty tone yet again. The ‘mhm’ really seals it. This post already has agenda written all over it. This is the type of tone scum uses when they want to control the thread. They want to get their ‘feelings’ across, they want to discredit their target, they want to sound relaxed, but also in control of the game and ready to ‘lynch scum.’ Argh, I could talk about this tone for hours and still reach the same conclusion. I don’t like it whatsoever.

@anon97870008

Why would you townread me for ignoring you? confused Why is Shurian townread for this? Jgoes called you out for your bullshit, I would have done the same, if I wouldn’t have typed to that time… you didn’t even let me time to react!
Then Marshal spent his time to do a complete meta read on Jgoes just to shade him more:

Priestess defends Jgoes, questions a townread on herself and questions a townread on Shurian. Questioning a townread on yourself is NAI. Questioning a townread on Jgoes is fine, because it is in alignment with her read on Jgoes, but she then proceeds to harddefend Jgoes. She even calls Marshal’s read on him ‘shading.’ And while Marshal does shadethrow quite a lot, the post she is quoting here was not shading. It was a legitimate read, flawed or not.

@anon97870008

Who want’s a disgusting confirmation biased metaread? Sfol-52 opener(town) very innocent and pure. Sfol 00 opener(neut, but kinda a true neutral and i consider semi-town for this purpose) Sfol53 opener(town). Again, pretty pure and not bold. This opener, hower, reeks of that level 2 wolf who’s agressive and confident because scum. In J’s defence, if they have a postcap, then that might explain the reason for the longer opener. But the immediate agressivity on me(for awful, NAI…

For reference. The quote is broken and shows Priestess but Marshal is the one who said it. This is a read. This is not shadethrowing.
Moving on.

@anon97870008

The definition of OMGUS.

Still going on with that high-and-mighty attitude. The emoji. Yes, I am reading someone based on the emojis they use. Watch out, Arete.

@anon97870008

AKA the reasoning for this “reactiontest” was… catching anyone who calls you out for your shit and then scumread him for it? I mean, what the hell? Also, why should eevee give you no post restriction. I think you just ignore your post restriction to be able to powerwolf more and distract the thread?

She tries her best to find a reason to scumread Marshal and sell people on the scumread with every single post she makes and I find it baffling. This is not even a proper ISO, this is just a hunt for mistakes and screw-ups she can use to sell her case. Throughout this ISO, she has not considered town!Marshal even once. She might just be tunneling here, but this tunneling seems to be done in bad faith.

@anon97870008

TMI in my eyes. None of them explicitely called PR = post restriction

@anon97870008

So this is worldbuilding.

TMI. Worldbuilding.

@anon97870008

Nothing of what you say is true.

Lies. She really finds as many reasons as possible.

@anon97870008

And like you know, I was BD, and I was jail executed by PKR, who is now my hydra partner. Irony of fate, or just a cruel host? Who knows. Yes, I will try to play this game as good as I can, but no, I will not cooperate and let my reads getting influenced by someone who executed me 3 days ago for “non claiming” . just because he failed in ISOing me. No thanks.
Yes, it’s my first time as hydra, and PKRs first time too, but I don’t see a reason why I should be forced to share my thoughts with him.

And this conclusion. This is not even a conclusion. This was a series of buzzwords, bad attitude, and agenda-pushing. She does not even say she thinks Marshal is definitive scum at the end. She did not analyze anything. She defends herself in her final line. There is just… absolutely no conclusion. She ISO’d Marshal for nothing, like she was looking for an excuse to use multiple keywords on him. There was no analysis in there. I cannot possibly see town doing this. I can easily see scum doing this for the sake of agenda though.

TL;DR Disquieted/Priestess slots still scum to me and I would lynch them both. Marshal is iffy and I wouldn’t clear him even if the Priestess slot flips scum, but he is generally more towny than Priestess/PKR in my opinion. Generally. I wouldn’t discount the possibility of powerful distancing, etc.

Also I’ve found myself generally agreeing with Luxy/Geyde on a lot of things, so I think I can confidently say their slot is town right now. Of course, if something like ‘Priestess town, Disquieted town’ ends up happening based on flips, the Luxy/Geyde slot has to be reevaluated. But for now, I don’t think I will be scumreading their slot until EoD.

If anyone has any questions, hit me up and I will answer to the best of my ability. I do have townreads, I’ve just been talking about them less.

[Marshal]

I’m off

[SirDerpsAlot]

I just can’t read wallposts after wallpost

[Mercenary]

@Mercenary

I should honoredly inform you all that I will take a longg time to answer questions redirected at me since I’m occupied today (theorically with school stuff, realistically playing cardgame irl), and I may even only answer them at D2 (should they still be relevant).

@edit: My cardpartner canceled today’s game. I’m now a disponible, but sad, Mercenary.

@Luxy

I don’t really know what Geyde was trying to achieve with that post, he told me he was fishing for reactions so I’ll ask him about it later when he is awake.

Alright. If you can, please share what you two can deduce about it in the thread.

@Luxy

She scumreads Marshal and asks a few questions but she hasn’t pushed for his lynch or tried to pressure him at all.

Yes, I can see it now. I thought she was doing a calmer discussing-with-people-who-townread-Marshal-1-by-1 play, but those quotes show that she only asked for it once and the person didn’t even reply.

@Luxy

She also had only 1 scumread and everything else null/townreads which gives her a lot of space to shift her reads in the future if one of her mislynches makes themselves unlynchable. (If she is scum.)

I believe that is because they are townhunting instead of scumhunting, as we talked a little about it.

@Luxy

I don’t know who was accusing her of having a cyclical thoughtstate, she’s just underwhelming at this point.

I thought you were accusing her of this. Nvmd it then.

@Luxy

We’ve already pointed out that people townreading us off of one post was particularly scummy because it appears that scum do not know how to treat out slot and will just nightkill us to get rid of us.

violently scrolls upwards
Found it

Anyway, that is my feeling as well. I think that, if you two were mafia, at least one of your scummates would try to argue with the pushes somehow to make them look more solidified. It isn’t the case, as everyone is agreeing passively BUT the people you scumread.
That puts you two to slightly townie. I recommend protectives to WIFOM between Maxi, Luxy/Geyde and Astand tonight.
Btw, was Astand pressured or just claimed out of nowhere? I didn’t see the context but a cop outing D1 is strange, although not so much on those forums.

@Luxy

@Mercenary is there anything we have posted that you disagree with?

Nothing I have read and not already mentioned. I can understand if I’m having trouble expressing my progression since I’m not used to post textwalls, but it is still more progression than I usually have.

[eevee]

Vote count:

Voted	Voters	Count
Hidden	Hidden	Hidden
Hidden	Hidden	Hidden
Hidden	Hidden	Hidden
Hidden	Hidden	Hidden
Hidden	Hidden	Hidden

Summary

Number of people being voted on vote count is randomized, since it’s hidden as well.

Your welcome.

[Arete]

@Luxy

We believe your conflicting reads were a result of fake reads being discussed in scumchat, and therefore, you forgot to make sure they were aligned as you forgot you were a hydra (because there is more than one other person in that chat, whereas there is only Geyde and I in ours). To us, we have been discussing each post in depth in order to make a conclusion and compiling that so we saw it as especially bad that your posts opinions did not mirror one anothers.

This read is reachy as all heck. It basically feels like you decided you wanted to scumread Priestess/PKR, and searched for a reason to do so.

@Luxy

I saw the posts, I quoted them in my class card and asked Geyde ‘I don’t think these posts ever come from scum!Marshal what do you think?’

Geyde replied ‘I agree.’

The read was based more upon Marshal’s behaviour in thread as mentioned after the quotes in the wallpost.

I still want more explanation of this because I’m not seeing it here. He’s been OMGUSing and shadethrowing everyone who accuses him, and literally his entire thought process on some of his reads has been ‘they disagree with me about Jgoes, they must be evil.’

Anyways, everything about this post feels agenda-y as all heck. It feels to me like Luxy/Geyde are starting from a perspective where Marshal town is indisputable fact (despite not having any sort of explanation for it), then worldbuilding around that and using it as an excuse to scumread people, frequently with bad reasoning.

---

@katze

I honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm. It feels like it has to be… I understand a lot of Kais fluff came after this post, but seriously?

It’s not sarcasm. As scum Kai tends to feel more pressure to contribute and he usually seems really nervous, whereas as town he’s far more confident.

In any case, I don’t agree with all of Katze’s reads here but his thought process doesn’t look fake to me.

---

I still have most of my posts left, so if anyone has questions for me or whatever, now’s the time. (Or anytime in the next 8 hours, really.)

[Marshal]

I really wanna flip priestess/pkr.

Because that slot flipping scum creates a good POE of jgoes/areteslot/kai.

If I am flipped, remember this POE.
If priestess is executed and flips town, I still might be able to do something mechanical to try to clear myself.

I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s something more than just “lol mechanics” and should still mostly clear me.

[Firekitten]

I’m wasting this post just to spite you to say you are this close to getting me to drop my current world view and my case on someone and vote you

[Marshal]

But I really doubt a priestess town flip.

[Marshal]

Is it because of the mechanics thing?

(You can like this post if it is) because I’m serious.

[Marshal]

Well I will just say this:

It is something that scum, in theory, could do, but it would be very -EV.

All I will say.

If it looks like I am the lynch ~4 hours from EOD, I can give a fullclaim.

[Marshal]

However, claiming makes me slightly less effective.

[Jane]

I’m finally back from the restaurant.

I’ve been so busy I didn’t even come close to breaking my PR.

I’m going to bed in less about ten minutes, so I’ll have to do the Marshal meta-read during the night.
I’m not sure if I should vote Marshal here, because while he is currently my top scumread, the meta-read could change my opinion on that.

I’m probably not voting, because I’m not even caught up with the thread, unless Mist decides on a vote for me.

[Mercenary]

Summary

Town
Shurian
Astand
MaximusPrime

Luxy/Geyde

Arete/Disquieted
Jgoes/Mist1522*
Katze/Firekitten

PKR/Priestess
Simon

Maxwell
Jake/Alice
Vulgard/Squid
DatBird

SirDerpsALot
Marshal
Nerbins

Kai
Scum

reminder on solving nullreads

Updated read thermometer if anyone is curious
I have changed some reads without commenting about them because wallpost is fatigating, if anyone wants to know more just @ me

@Arete

We believe your conflicting reads were a result of fake reads being discussed in scumchat, and therefore, you forgot to make sure they were aligned as you forgot you were a hydra (because there is more than one other person in that chat, whereas there is only Geyde and I in ours). To us, we have been discussing each post in depth in order to make a conclusion and compiling that so we saw it as especially bad that your posts opinions did not mirror one anothers.

@Luxy

Priestess discredits us/nullreads us and PKR puts us as his top townread! Surely if they were a town hydra, they would have discussed their reads together before posting them, right? His clear on two strong wolf players based on one post seems like an attempt to pocket us and then nightkill us later. Additionally, Pkr just happens to claim self-confirming in a game where almost everything is NAI. Tinfoil time: PKR is a mafia role which is designed to ‘confirm’ itself as town.

Here. Luxy/Geyde claim that Priestess wasn’t communicating as a hydra and that was why they had such different responses.
I honestly dislike that reasoning in particular to scumread them, not taking in consideration the other accusations on Priestess because that would take too much time on a slot everyone is already discussing anyway. They are expecting everyone to play as them, disregarding completely that some players may simply act as if they did not had a hydra at all. Iirc this happened earlier with another hydra (Jgoes/Chemist I think) and Marshal handwaved it as “hydras are different people”. They didn’t bring up this point again, noticeably, when Luxy accused Priestess of that.
Something to take in consideration about Marshal @Luxy

I just noticed that when finding that post to link to Arete.

@Mercenary

@Mercenary is there anything we have posted that you disagree with?

Nothing I have read and not already mentioned.

I didn’t read the entirety of the wallpost, btw. Here is one thing I disagree on.

[astand]

I’d want to bring some attention to the slot that kinda seems to go UTR for now, and maybe not for good reasons.

This post I’m replying to has 11 likes and people seem to be completely fine with it (for some reason), but I actually do find it pretty wolfy. Main reason for this is probably because everything in it does make actual sense, it’s well written, but let’s ask ourselves, what purpose does this post actually serve?

The first half of it is just explaining what eevee’s intentions are and generic talk about forum mafia, which is not that AI by itself, since anyone can talk about it (it’s just FK is maybe able to talk about it better than the most).

What is actually bothering me much more is the second half of the post, where FK talks about how people play in general and how Marshal plays in particular (it proves FK does read the game btw). Of particular note however to me is purely desriptive nature of what he’s talking about. He says Marshal’s way of posting is “bothering” him, since he doesn’t think about his posts and they are full of flaws. Which is find and well and may even be accurate, but what conclusion FK is even drawing from this? One would think he’d might conclude that Marshal is town based on that, but this is not present. In fact, any talk about alignment is avoided.

This actually sounds like a post that could be 100% not fabricated and yet be made by scum who wants to specifically avoid writing any falsehoods in their posts and seem like they posted some great insight when it’s actually pretty meaningless.

Well, I tried to look at katze now:

Summary

@katze

Who want’s a disgusting confirmation biased metaread?

Weirdly enough, I kind of like Marshals reaction test, and I feel like Jgoes’ reaction to it was poor to say the least.

@katze

Please read this entire post, I tried to format it in the most accessible way.

wallpost=locktown Jokes aside, this is an incredibly indepth post. I don’t think there’s much I can say about it that isn’t obvious - well done.

@katze

Anyway, I really don’t like how much everybody’s talking about their post counts and such. I feel like there’s some correlation between some post limits and their roles, and the OP specifies that “anticlaim may or may not exist”. I know it’s not specifically claiming, but there’s decent odds that it can narrow your role down to the scum. That’s just my two cents though, I could be horrifically wrong after all.

@katze

In my eyes, there’s a high chance that the Marshal vs PKRiestess posting earlier is TvS - and I’m leaning more towards Priestess here. However , I do think the odds of this being SvS aren’t unreasonably high either.

@katze

Luxy/Geyde: Most likely town, I don’t think a scum would put this much effort without pushing on people harder.

Kai: Scumlean or very bored town. Will go into this in a bit.

Arete/Disquieted: Sort of leaning scum, but this is just a hunch really. I don’t really like any of their posts though. And they seem kind of eager to clear Kai…

A lot of the stuff he posted is actually pretty generic - like liking Luxy/Geyde, passively agreeing with not liking Jgoes based on Marshal’s reaction test (about Marshal - the statement that they are scum or VT makes no sense to me), Kai’s read is just clearly hedgy. I do get the slight impression that content katze makes is going through the motions.

Conclusion: I do scumread katze/FK slot and I do want to see much more from them.

About Arete/Disquieted slot: I think some good points were already made, but whatever.

I didn’t like their opening post when I first read it and I dislike it even more now since it has been made clear there is no follow up to it. In their last post their give townlean on Kai for fluffposting, which is fair enough of a read by itself, but I don’t like “but hey, could be a personality quirk” remark - feels like trying to keep the option open. I also dislike how they go into a whole paragraph of how going UTR is worrying in general. And interestingly enough, there is actually no point whatsoever made on why SirDerps might be scum from what he himself actually posted except that people don’t talk about him much.
Also there are already excuses put in the post itself, “I don’t really seek to control conversation or a push here” - why not actually? Wouldn’t be it the whole point? Btw for fairness, I am going to ISO Derps myself.

As for Arete, who has much more content as of now:

Summary

@Arete

Alright, I exist.

Before I get into reads and such, I want to clarify that Disquieted and I are in fact a hydra, since I’ve seen a couple people trying to read us as two separate slots? Anyways, we’re not two slots, we’re one slot.

As for reads:

Thinking Astand is very likely V here; his posts have felt very solvey and the thought process feels natural to me whereas W!Astand usually has a hard time producing content or interacting with the thread. He’s probably my strongest townread at the moment.

Luxy/Geyde are basically null for me right now ( sidenote: this is such a hecking stacked hydra ). I like the 1 post Luxy has made but I’m having a hard time trying to e.g. analyze his progression because, well, it’s one post, and they’re both strong enough players that I’m not going to put them in my townpile for a single good post.

Simon: you all who are scumreading Simon for focusing on mechanics here are pretty much ignoring his meta, mechanical talk is NAI for him. Aside from that, he’s a slight townlean at the moment based on his attempts to actually generate content (see: interactions with PKR).

Townreading Shurian for a couple reasons – one is the snap-vote at the start of the thread followed by an immediate warning to not do that, I think mafia would either realize you can’t vote in-thread and refrain from doing it, or if they did make that mistake they wouldn’t immediately warn people not to because if you warn people there’s no chance of them doing it again. The other, more significant reason is his wallpost; he’s taking a lot of stances and drawing a lot of conclusions in the post, which is a huge contrast to his scumgames which are basically non-stop hedging.

Datbird: Null.

Priestess/PKR is a townlean for the moment, I’m liking Priestess’s spicy anti-consensus read on the Marshal reactiontest; it feels town-motivated because as scum she … it’s complicated but she doesn’t like to call attention to herself in this specific way.

Marshal: Stop clearing him for doing reactiontests, as one of his LotR teammates I can confirm that he does them all the time, either to elicit reactions that help scum (as in the Derps case) or as fake reactiontests for towncred (there’s an example of this on D3, where he “reactiontests” me and uses it as an excuse to townread me). I’m getting weird gut feelings from how he keeps deferring to direct quotes from Klopps’s guide whenever people criticize his reads; he’s a slight scumlean for now.

Vulgard/Squid: This slot is one of my strongest townreads at the moment, mostly on the basis of Vul’s half; I’m not seeing LotR Vul at all here and his readwall just screams town!Vul to me.

Katze/Litten is a null.

Derps is a townlean mostly for meta reasons, but to be honest the whole ‘I’m ignoring my postcap’ thing gives me towny vibes for reasons I can’t really articulate.

Maxwell is a null.

Jake/Alice is a null.

Merc is a slight scumlean at the moment, the whole neut hunting thing with Jgoes is weird .

Mercenary:

Judging my Marshal’s TMI I would say that scum knows everyone has a post restriction

This post kind of seems to be TMIing Marshal as scum as well. She barely interacts with nor attempts to read Marshal and then concludes from his reactiontest that scum know that post restrictions are a thing, when she doesn’t even express the conclusion that he’s scum at any point.

Jgoes/Chemist: Townlean on this slot, actually. I like his conviction and I’m basically inclined to read him as a L1 player, meaning his conviction is likely to be town-AI. The reasons for scumreading him seem to more or less be that he pushed on Marshal for his reaction test but the person who started that narrative is Marshal and Jgoes’s thought process here feels natural to me.

Maxi: Null, unless Astand turns out to not be FPSing.

Nerbins: Null.

I’m going to pull a Geyde here and do a threadread on the Jgoes/Marshal thing; the way the entire thread has been warping around it feels super unnatural given the triviality of the interaction and based on that unnaturalness I’m thinking there’s at least one scum involved in the continuing discussion of it.

Ironically enough, I don’t like the reasoning for townreading me, since I don’t understand where “W Astand usually has a hard time producing content” thing comes from, as I did post content in EFoL 3, which is the only my scum game Arete knows about afaic. And really, “felt solvey” is a very lazy reason to townread anyone. So I think it’s an excuse to townread me and likely TMI.

(On a side note, I think meta reads are going to be much, much less useful in this game as the structure of posting in general is completely different from normal.)

Don’t know why she bothers writing about her nulls so much, like pointing out

The read on Shurian - it’s actually good, the reason being that this is a read I made (lol) and Arete just repeated, and I also find it strange that she tries to support it with liking Shurian’s wallpost for taking stances - because I think plenty of stances Shurian took weren’t actually that solid (I townread Shurian on that post for a different reason) - I’m not sure if Arete bothered to analyse that post very well.

Don’t like how they shade Marshal based on the fact “well LoTR game, he can do it as scum too!”. (side note: honestly from my skim I got an annoyed villager vibes from Marshal, at least from some posts, maybe I’ll quote them). The rest of the reads I think fair, but none strike me as something definitely villagery to make.

Reversing the read (on Merc in this instance) is kinda a slightly villagery trait though (when it has a fair reason), so it gives me some small pause here. Don’t think it’s out of Arete’s range, of course, but it’s not a bad look.

The attack on Luxy is terrible in the regard that he tries to shade the slot for some very specific reads that go in conflict with what the narrative they try to push, while I think it’s a completely disingenuous to evaluate Luxy/Geyde based on that and call “everything about this post” agenda-y.

TL;DR Scumreads on FK/katze and Arete/Disqueted.

I’m getting really tired right now from doing this tbh, and it’s already 00:35 AM.

[astand]

Without wall posts or much explaining, I think the way Vulgard is approaching his reasoning is mildly villagery from what I’ve seen, and some of his observations have been pretty good.

[astand]

FK, did you have that so called discourse with katze, what did you discuss in terms of game related content and what did you disagree upon?

[Vulgard]

@astand

This post I’m replying to has 11 likes and people seem to be completely fine with it (for some reason), but I actually do find it pretty wolfy. Main reason for this is probably because everything in it does make actual sense, it’s well written, but let’s ask ourselves, what purpose does this post actually serve?

The first half of it is just explaining what eevee’s intentions are and generic talk about forum mafia, which is not that AI by itself, since anyone can talk about it (it’s just FK is maybe able to talk about it better than the most).

What is actually bothering me much more is the second half of the post, where FK talks about how people play in general and how Marshal plays in particular (it proves FK does read the game btw). Of particular note however to me is purely desriptive nature of what he’s talking about. He says Marshal’s way of posting is “bothering” him, since he doesn’t think about his posts and they are full of flaws. Which is find and well and may even be accurate, but what conclusion FK is even drawing from this? One would think he’d might conclude that Marshal is town based on that, but this is not present. In fact, any talk about alignment is avoided.

This actually sounds like a post that could be 100% not fabricated and yet be made by scum who wants to specifically avoid writing any falsehoods in their posts and seem like they posted some great insight when it’s actually pretty meaningless

I like the fact you’re going there because I’ve noticed it too, I just had no idea what to say about it.

Also, Disquieted and FK/katze seem oddly similar in that aspect. It makes me wonder if they could both be scum going for the exact same playstyle… it doesn’t feel right though. Not a great strategy, not a good way to play the game. I’m not 100% sure if either of these slots is scummy but I did notice their similar approach to the game, as in what their posts contain (a lot of fluff and NAI talk, but little to no analysis and solving).

I honestly don’t know what to think about this, but I felt like bringing it up.

[Ami]

stream jesus is king