FoL Feedback Thread

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#12999

Thoughts on adding a new neut. Cause theres like two good ones

#13000

NK wins at final 18

2 Likes
#13001

Granted

Revenant is now in FoL

1 Like
#13002

No stirboi or insurgent

#13003

Vague intuitions say that might be too difficult

Letā€™s see if thatā€™s borne out by numbers

Only using completed games EFoL 2+ and not counting games that had a pre-rework Fool, and looking at EFoLs, NFoLs, and CFoLs (note that the ā€œwould Fool have wonā€ criterion isnā€™t taking into account the thing where a Fool could have gotten someone else lynched/been a vote for scum/etc.)

  • EFoL 2 redux (scum win): 2 BD lynches, 2 non-BD lynches. 1 scum lynch occurred with scum majority. A current Fool would have won, a reworked Fool would have lost.
  • FoL 19.5 (BD win): 0 BD lynches, 4 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have lost.
  • FoL 20 (scum win): 0 BD lynches, 3 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have lost.
  • FoL 21 (BD win): 1 BD lynch, 4 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have lost.
  • NFoL 3 (BD win): 0 BD lynches, 3 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have lost. Note that there was a no-lynch on D1.
  • FoL 22 (BD win): 1 BD lynch, 3 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have lost.
  • FoL 23 (scum win): 2 BD lynches, 0 non-BD lynches. The current Fool won and a reworked Fool would also have won.
  • EFoL 3 (scum win): 2 BD lynches, 1 non-BD lynches. Note that there was a D1 lynch. A current or reworked Fool would have won.
  • NFoL 4 (BD win): 1 BD lynch, 2 non-BD lynches. A current Fool would have won, a reworked Fool would have lost.
  • FoL 24 (scum win): 2 BD lynches, 0 non-BD lynches. A current or reworked Fool would have won.
#13004

Probably bad idea: change the Fool wincon to ā€œEnsure that at least as many Blue Dragon as non-Blue Dragon are executed, not including yourself.ā€

#13005

spice

but then itā€™s just a social sellsword/warlock IMO

#13006

Also

not very hot take

itā€™s dumb that 2 mislynches is usually enough for a scum win when there are usually 3 groupscum on D2

1 Like
#13007

Scum having 2kpn and NK having ~1 kpn create this problem

#13008

Wait scum donā€™t have 2KPN

1 Like
#13009

itā€™s possible to reach for a bit assuming insanely poor healer actions and unseen
D1-Scum bleed someone
n1-2-4-1
d2-bleed someone else
n2-assassinate, d1 bleed dies
d3-bleed someone else
n3-assassinate, d2 bleed dies.
d4 no more bleeds
n4-assassinate d3 bleed dies

thatā€™s 8-11 bd dead in 4 days and 4 nights

#13010

You donā€™t necessarily need insanely poor healer actions, you can also just rand 0 healers (as in FoL 20) or (for example) a solo Alch

1 Like
#13011

well yea that too

#13012

also this isnā€™t taking into account nk
with nk killing one bd every night it means bd can be essentially exterminated by d5

#13013

Muhahaha :joy:

#13014

Scum has in its peak 1.5 kpn. 1 kill per night + 1 conversion every two nights
Bleed deaths shouldnt occur in the first days at all, as long as there are healers

#13015

There arenā€™t consistently healers, and conversion is in effect -2 BD because it removes a BD and adds a scum

#13016

Well bleed was designed for consistent healers

#13017

But we donā€™t have consistent healers, which means we canā€™t balance around that assumption (although personally I think it would be a beneficial change to up the odds of healers spawning until one has spawned)

#13018

Which means you probably should change bleed
Or the healers
Because bleed was not meant as consistent kpn in the early game

Or you accept that scum has a higher kpn than even in tol