ToL is a FM game with cult mechanics.
ā¦if I already wouldnāt take the bet, why would I take an even worse version of the betā¦
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Itās not, really.
All a cult is, in mafia, is a faction that can convert players onto itās side.
it should be slightly higher in a vacuum because scum have the social advantage in reality.
are you being sarcastic or wut?
scum have the ability to use their collective voice that town does not and can sway the lynch
town are more fractured
on a seperate note this is why i like ITAs because it allows town to take power into their own hands and actually be able do something about their reads if other town are swayed but wolves but thatās not here nor there
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But the town have more members, so they should be able to identify the evils better.
It is more fun than an unfair coin.
The point isnāt that we can reach perfect balance, because we canāt reasonably do that without oversimplifying the game to the point of ruining it.
But we can APPROACH perfect balance
Also something to note. You say NK should have a lower winrate than the larger factions because they arenāt a team.
To that I say, in Evolve we agreed that the Monster should have the same winrate as the Hunters, even though the Monster isnāt a team either.
The point is that the only difference between NK and Cultseen is that Cultseen has more players.
Itās not the name of the factions or quantity of members but rather the win conditions of the players that factors into these kinds of balance numbers.
Thatās why NK is given a slot all to itself with these discussions at all. Because regardless of if you call him a faction or not, we certainly treat them like one.
Non-NK neuts are the counterexample to this. When was the last time we talked about one of THEIR winrates? It doesnāt come up much because their wincons are fundumentally different, while BD, Cultseen and NK are all just āeliminate the other 2 groupsā.
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Anyways there is also one other thing.
The claim āa 33/33/33% winrate is badā is not the same as the claim āThe changes required to create a 33/33/33% winrate are badā.
Specifically the 1st one is saying that the winrates being set to that by itself makes the game worse.
The 2nd one is saying that the changes which cause the winrates to be set to that are causing non-balance problems.
The thing is that the 2nd isnāt actually an argument against wanting a 33/33/33% winrate as a long term ideal, just a potential argument against specific changes under the reasoning that reaching that ideal is not worth compromising other more important ideals, since balance was never the top priority in game design to begin with.
Or in other words there is the question of the following: If we could have a 33/33/33% winrate without creating any non-balance issues (like the NKās arenāt just brute forcing the game and the social deduction aspect is as intact as it is now ect), would the game be worse? If so why?
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Remember, even if we conclude that a 33/33/33% WR is ideal that doesnāt mean we are going to drop what we are doing to force it. Rather it just means that when we do make changes weād want to push it closer to that ideal whenever possible.
Over time, since all of the individual changes being made are also designed to solve non-balance issues and make the game more interesting in general, this would allow us to reach pretty much whatever WRās we want without compromising the overall game integrity.
In other words, air on the side of buffing NK whenever doing so can solve a problem with the game.
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Bascially
While yes the game has inherent unfairness, we still want to limit that unfairness whenever possible. Remember that just because we canāt be perfect doesnāt mean we should throw our hands up and give up entirely.
Even if I accepted that the NK doesnāt count (even though being on his own is irrelevant, since the entire point was that difference in player count shouldnāt mean a difference in winrate), that still wouldnāt explain a difference between Cultseen and BD winrate.
There is no gray area there. Cultseen is multiple players, so there is no arguing that they arenāt a faction. And you agreed that you should balance based on teams not the playercount within the teams. So why do you claim that Cultseen should have a lower winrate than BD inspite of this?
If you play average, you should have a fair chance to win. With any class.
Btw my take to the plurality/majority thing: design goal should be to be as less timezone specific as possible
Cuz it sucks if you lose just cuz you are european and didnt want to stand up at 3 am.
thats why plurality is hella bad, cfds at EoD